Please note that the summary is generated based on the transcript and
may not capture all the nuances or details discussed in the podcast
episode.
Notes
In this retrospective episode to mark Mental Health Awareness week, Jake and Damian look back on some of the conversations they've had with guests about overcoming struggles with their mental health. Featuring a sneak preview of an upcoming episode with Gary Barlow, there are also moments from Mark Cavendish, Courtney Black and Danny Cipriani.
In this retrospective episode, Jake Humphrey and Damian Hughes revisit some of the powerful conversations they've had with guests about overcoming mental health struggles.
## Key Points:
1. **The Importance of Talking:** - Externalizing problems provides perspective, allows for differing viewpoints, and helps individuals step outside their own heads. - Matt Haig's quote: "Mental health problems don't define who you are, they're just something you experience." - High Performance Podcast serves as a platform for individuals to share their challenges and find comfort in knowing they're not alone.
2. **Danny Cipriani's Journey:** - Despite his success as a rugby player, Danny struggled with mental health challenges, feeling isolated and alone. - He emphasized the need for acceptance, guidance, and a coach who could understand him beyond his athletic abilities.
3. **Courtney Black's Battle with Perfectionism:** - Perfectionism led Courtney to self-loathing and a distorted body image, impacting her relationships and well-being. - She highlighted the importance of accepting oneself for who they are, rather than striving for an unattainable ideal.
4. **Social Media and Mental Health:** - Jake and Damian discuss the negative impact of social media, particularly on young girls, leading to lower self-worth and increased anxiety. - They emphasize the need for self-awareness and limiting exposure to harmful content.
5. **Mark Cavendish's Clinical Depression:** - Mark Cavendish struggled with clinical depression, experiencing emotional numbness and irritability. - He found comfort in sharing his experiences and recognizing the importance of seeking professional help.
6. **Gary Barlow's Wilderness Years:** - Gary Barlow experienced a difficult period after leaving Take That, feeling ashamed and unable to cope with his career struggles. - He isolated himself and pretended to work in the studio, leading to feelings of insanity.
7. **Encouraging Conversations:** - Jake and Damian emphasize the importance of checking in on loved ones and asking them directly about their well-being. - They recommend using a scale of one to ten to encourage honest responses and facilitate deeper conversations.
8. **Resources for Mental Health Support:** - Jack.org, MIND, and the Mental Health Foundation are valuable resources for individuals struggling with mental health challenges. - Seeking professional help is crucial for addressing and overcoming these challenges.
## Conclusion:
Jake and Damian reiterate the importance of talking about mental health, breaking down stigmas, and providing support to those in need. They encourage listeners to reach out for help if they are struggling and to remember that everything passes. The episode serves as a reminder to be mindful of the mental health of those around us and to foster open and supportive conversations.
# Mental Health in Sports: Conversations with Resilience
In this special episode dedicated to Mental Health Awareness Week, Jake Humphrey and Damian Hughes revisit conversations with guests who have openly shared their struggles with mental health. The episode features a sneak peek into an upcoming episode with Gary Barlow, along with moments from Mark Cavendish, Courtney Black, and Danny Cipriani.
**Overcoming Mental Health Challenges in Sports**
The episode highlights the importance of mental well-being in the world of sports, where athletes often face immense pressure to perform and succeed. Through the experiences of the guests, the hosts explore the various challenges that athletes encounter, including dealing with injuries, handling criticism, and coping with the intense demands of their sport.
**Danny Cipriani: Finding Strength in Vulnerability**
Former rugby player Danny Cipriani candidly shares his struggles with anxiety and depression. He emphasizes the significance of seeking help and embracing vulnerability as a sign of strength, rather than weakness. Cipriani's journey inspires others to open up about their mental health concerns and seek support.
**Courtney Black: Overcoming Trauma and Addiction**
Courtney Black, a former professional cyclist, opens up about her battle with addiction and the impact it had on her mental health. She recounts her courageous decision to seek help, undergo treatment, and ultimately reclaim her life. Black's story serves as a powerful reminder of the importance of seeking professional assistance in overcoming addiction and mental health issues.
**Mark Cavendish: Dealing with Pressure and Injury**
Cycling legend Mark Cavendish discusses the immense pressure he faced during his career, both from external expectations and his own self-imposed standards. He also shares his experience of dealing with a serious injury and the mental toll it took on him. Cavendish's resilience and determination to overcome these challenges offer valuable insights into the mental fortitude required to succeed in high-performance sports.
**Gary Barlow: Navigating the Music Industry**
In a sneak peek of an upcoming episode, singer-songwriter Gary Barlow reflects on the mental health challenges he faced while navigating the music industry. He speaks about the pressures of fame, the fear of failure, and the importance of self-care in maintaining mental well-being.
The episode concludes with a powerful message about the importance of prioritizing mental health in all aspects of life, especially in the demanding world of sports. It highlights the need for open dialogue, support, and professional help in addressing mental health concerns, encouraging individuals to seek assistance when needed.
Raw Transcript with Timestamps
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[00:32.000 -> 00:36.000] On our podcast, we love to highlight businesses that are doing things a better way [00:36.000 -> 00:38.000] so you can live a better life. [00:38.000 -> 00:41.000] And that's why when I found Mint Mobile, I had to share. [00:41.000 -> 00:44.000] So Mint Mobile ditched retail stores and all those overhead costs [00:44.000 -> 00:49.260] and instead sells their phone plans online and passes those savings to share. So Mint Mobile ditched retail stores and all those overhead costs and instead sells their phone plans online and passes those savings to [00:49.260 -> 00:53.140] you. And for a limited time they're passing on even more savings with a new [00:53.140 -> 00:58.600] customer offer that cuts all Mint Mobile plans to $15 a month when you purchase a [00:58.600 -> 01:08.640] three-month plan. That's unlimited talk, text and data for $15 a month. And by the way, the quality of Mint Mobile's [01:08.640 -> 01:14.040] wireless service in comparison to providers that we've worked with before is incredible. [01:14.040 -> 01:19.820] Mint Mobile is here to rescue you with premium wireless plans for $15 a month. So say goodbye [01:19.820 -> 01:28.080] to your overpriced wireless plans, those jaw-dropping monthly bills, those unexpected overages, because all the plans come with unlimited talk and text [01:28.080 -> 01:33.000] and high-speed data delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. Use your [01:33.000 -> 01:37.080] own phone with any Mint Mobile plan, bring your phone number along with all [01:37.080 -> 01:41.040] your existing contacts. So ditch overpriced wireless with Mint Mobile's [01:41.040 -> 01:48.840] limited time deal and get premium wireless service for just 15 bucks a month. To get this new customer offer and your new three-month [01:48.840 -> 01:53.120] unlimited wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month go to mintmobile.com [01:53.120 -> 02:00.640] slash HPP. That's mintmobile.com slash HPP. Cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a [02:00.640 -> 02:06.640] month at mintmobile.com slash HPP. Additional taxes, fees and restrictions apply. [02:06.640 -> 02:08.560] See Mint Mobile for details. [02:11.920 -> 02:13.800] Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode [02:13.800 -> 02:15.620] of the High Performance Podcast. [02:15.620 -> 02:17.840] On a Friday, we like to do something a bit different [02:17.840 -> 02:20.700] and we just like to reflect on conversations we've had [02:20.700 -> 02:22.300] in the past or lessons that we've learned [02:22.300 -> 02:24.160] from the amazing guests who've joined us. [02:24.160 -> 02:27.520] And it's UK Mental Health Awareness Week and [02:28.560 -> 02:31.960] we've had so many incredible conversations with people who [02:32.360 -> 02:37.280] understand the power of sharing, understand the vital, vital importance of talking and [02:37.640 -> 02:43.160] please, if you're struggling, make sure you do talk to someone. Talk to a friend, talk to a professional, [02:43.280 -> 02:45.120] but don't keep it bottled [02:45.120 -> 02:49.680] up. And actually the conversations we've had on this podcast, even if myself and Damien [02:49.680 -> 02:55.180] are not, you know, qualified therapists, the freedom that our guests have told us they [02:55.180 -> 02:58.840] feel when they've had these conversations and the incredible messages that we get from [02:58.840 -> 03:03.800] people who have heard these conversations and have either been inspired to seek help [03:03.800 -> 03:05.040] themselves or to [03:05.040 -> 03:08.120] talk to a partner or a friend or a colleague about things they've never [03:08.120 -> 03:12.920] opened up about before. That is the power of these kinds of conversations and we [03:12.920 -> 03:19.320] really truly believe that talking can heal so many things. So let's bring [03:19.320 -> 03:22.180] Damien into the conversation. What is the science and the research behind the [03:22.180 -> 03:24.800] importance of talking in a situation like this? [03:24.800 -> 03:25.760] Well the importance of talking [03:23.480 -> 03:27.920] in a situation like this? Well the idea [03:25.760 -> 03:29.720] of just externalizing some of our [03:27.920 -> 03:31.760] problems, it gives us a sense of [03:29.720 -> 03:34.320] perspective Jake, I think it gives us [03:31.760 -> 03:36.320] the ability to get a differing viewpoint [03:34.320 -> 03:39.240] but more importantly it just allows us [03:36.320 -> 03:40.920] to step outside of our own heads. I thought [03:39.240 -> 03:42.480] I'd share a quote that really [03:40.920 -> 03:45.200] resonated with me around mental health [03:42.480 -> 03:49.360] from the brilliant author Matt Haig who said that, mental health problems don't define who you are, they're just something [03:49.360 -> 03:54.600] you merely experience. You walk in the rain and you feel the rain, but you're not the [03:54.600 -> 04:01.200] rain, is what Matt describes it as. And I think that sort of sums up nicely what we're [04:01.200 -> 04:05.520] talking about here, that we all, like think of mental health as a spectrum. [04:05.520 -> 04:07.480] Every one of us has mental health, [04:07.480 -> 04:10.560] but some of us maybe struggle at times with that. [04:10.560 -> 04:12.400] And some of us sometimes feel vibrant [04:12.400 -> 04:13.980] and feel that it's fine. [04:13.980 -> 04:15.800] So everybody has mental health. [04:15.800 -> 04:18.400] It's sometimes when we experience problems, [04:18.400 -> 04:22.120] we just need the ability to see them for what they are [04:22.120 -> 04:25.200] rather than let them define us or define our lives. [04:25.200 -> 04:30.400] And what are your thoughts on why a platform like High Performance can at times be an important [04:30.400 -> 04:34.600] place for people to come and share their problems? [04:34.600 -> 04:38.760] It's a really good question and I think it goes to the heart of what we try to do on [04:38.760 -> 04:46.240] the podcast, Jay, which is about take the lessons from the lived experiences of our ymwneud â chael y dysonion o'r profiadau bywydol o'n gwestiynau ddiddorol [04:46.240 -> 04:48.160] ac yna helpu pobl i'w ddysgwyl. [04:48.160 -> 04:52.560] Ac rwy'n credu bod pob un ohonom, os ydym yn mynd i siarad am profiadau bywydol, [04:52.560 -> 04:55.360] wedi cael amser lle efallai oedd ein hyder wedi cael ei gysylltu, [04:55.360 -> 05:00.000] neu rydyn ni'n teimlo'n ddifrifol, er mwyn siarad am syndrome ymgyrch. [05:00.000 -> 05:11.960] Felly rwy'n credu bod pob un yn ei wneud hynny, ac rwy'n credu bod mwy o bobl yn siarad amdano a'u gweld eu bod yn ddangos i'w wneud o fewn ffordd y gallant ei rannu heb eu teimlo'n ddi-ddweud neu'n [05:11.960 -> 05:17.660] ddiddorol neu'n ddiddorol amdano. Mae'n cymryd i'r rhai eraill wneud a rannu yn unig. [05:17.660 -> 05:22.340] Felly rwy'n credu bod yna ddwylo arbennig o bob un o'n cynghorwyr mawr [05:22.340 -> 05:25.760] yn y 200 o adroddiadau y byddwch chi'n gwbod nad yw unrhyw un yn mynd drwy hynny'n ddiddorol of every one of our high performers in nearly 200 episodes, that nobody gets through this [05:25.760 -> 05:32.000] unscathed without occasionally being rocked. And hopefully for people that are listening to it that [05:32.000 -> 05:37.520] maybe are at a similar place, it gives them the confidence that they're not alone. And I love what [05:37.520 -> 05:41.360] you say about not being judged and I think that's the most important thing, you know, this podcast [05:41.360 -> 05:49.760] is not here to judge people. We don't judge why they've come on the podcast, what they tell us on the podcast, why they choose to share these [05:49.760 -> 05:54.160] thoughts on high performance. What we do know from the messages and the conversations that we have [05:55.360 -> 06:00.880] with you, our listeners, is that this stuff really helps. So let's share some of the things that [06:00.880 -> 06:08.720] we've heard then on the high performance podcast. We're going to start with the former England rugby player, Danny Cipriani, who was one of the most lauded, [06:08.720 -> 06:13.680] celebrated, wonderful rugby players of his generation. What people didn't understand [06:13.680 -> 06:17.760] was what was going on beneath the surface. And this plays to so many things that we talk about [06:17.760 -> 06:24.160] on High Performance. We don't believe in opinion, we believe in empathy. And so often you have an [06:24.160 -> 06:28.360] opinion that just because someone's life looks great, it must be. The truth is that when you [06:28.360 -> 06:32.440] scratch beneath the surface and you put empathy, not opinion, at the heart of your [06:32.440 -> 06:36.880] thought process you realize what was really going on. Here's what Danny told us. [06:36.880 -> 06:48.400] I've been in a paper a lot about my personal life with women and such and mistakes like, [06:48.400 -> 06:51.280] you know, issues that had just happened [06:51.280 -> 06:52.280] and I was on the front page [06:52.280 -> 06:53.440] and it was just negative stories. [06:53.440 -> 06:56.360] It was just decision making that, [06:56.360 -> 06:57.680] it wasn't even decision making. [06:57.680 -> 07:00.560] I felt like it was who I was in my program [07:00.560 -> 07:01.800] and I was just doing it. [07:09.000 -> 07:10.000] And to like face yourself in those moments, you push it down. [07:10.000 -> 07:12.440] You don't sit there and be like, what am I doing? [07:12.440 -> 07:17.000] You just carry on behaving in a certain way, you know, trying to find an escape, whatever [07:17.000 -> 07:18.000] that would have been. [07:18.000 -> 07:22.560] And for me it was, you know, it would have been women or it would have been taking a [07:22.560 -> 07:26.040] painkiller or it would have been, you know, whatever it would have been [07:26.040 -> 07:27.240] because that would have numbed me enough [07:27.240 -> 07:29.280] for that point to feel okay. [07:29.280 -> 07:30.880] Escaping what? [07:30.880 -> 07:33.940] My thoughts, my feelings, my not feeling good enough, [07:33.940 -> 07:36.120] you know, the way people spoke about me, [07:36.120 -> 07:38.400] like I felt very alone a long time, [07:39.240 -> 07:43.420] but that's also because I wasn't really facing myself [07:43.420 -> 07:46.140] and accepting and looking at myself [07:46.140 -> 07:48.940] and not taking accountability for my behaviors [07:48.940 -> 07:51.760] as well as just the life I was in. [07:51.760 -> 07:53.620] I was speaking to my physio about it the other day [07:53.620 -> 07:55.500] about a lot of my experiences [07:55.500 -> 07:58.200] and he's an angel of a human being. [07:58.200 -> 08:00.800] Kevin Lidlow, he's just an angel. [08:00.800 -> 08:02.400] It's type of physio who put his hands on you [08:02.400 -> 08:05.240] and he'll know exactly what's up with you. [08:05.240 -> 08:06.880] But I was speaking to him and he was like, [08:06.880 -> 08:11.000] I don't think you should take so much pressure on yourself [08:11.000 -> 08:13.920] because you're in a position where women put themselves [08:13.920 -> 08:14.760] in front of you. [08:14.760 -> 08:18.080] But I'm like, ultimately, I wouldn't want my son [08:18.080 -> 08:20.520] or my daughter behaving in that way because I want [08:20.520 -> 08:26.320] to bring them up with the right type of love and care and focus for everyone. [08:26.320 -> 08:27.520] It's not I didn't have that. [08:28.240 -> 08:34.240] I was just quite entitled, confident, living my life and not really being guided in how [08:34.240 -> 08:35.200] to behave or anything. [08:36.000 -> 08:39.680] It was such a fascinating conversation, wasn't it, with Danny Cipriani, Damien. [08:39.680 -> 08:49.300] And I think one of the key messages from that is that a lot of people have come on this podcast and told us that when they're successful, when things feel like [08:49.300 -> 08:52.760] they're in flow or when things are great and yet they're still struggling with [08:52.760 -> 08:55.980] their mental health challenges, that actually just exasperates the problem [08:55.980 -> 08:59.840] because then they think to themselves, well will I ever be okay if all of this [08:59.840 -> 09:03.320] great stuff's happening and I'm still not happy or I'm still not content or [09:03.320 -> 09:09.200] I'm still not free of my mental health challenges? Well yeah yeah definitely and I think that's what Danny was a great example of [09:09.200 -> 09:14.240] it that he had the world at his feet in a professional sense and yet what he told us was [09:14.240 -> 09:19.600] he just wanted somebody to care about him he just wanted a coach to put their arm around the shoulder [09:19.600 -> 09:30.800] and see him for who he was rather than the player that they thought he could be. And I think that speaks to the heart of where one of the biggest predictors of mental health challenges [09:30.800 -> 09:34.000] is often when we feel isolated or alone. [09:34.000 -> 09:40.400] You know, I remember Danny speaking really movingly how that he said his father was black, his mother was white, [09:40.400 -> 09:42.400] so he never quite fitted in either world. [09:42.400 -> 09:47.480] He came from a council estate and yet went to one of Britain's best public schools, oherwydd ni ddim yn eithaf cyflawni mewn byd. Fe ddod o'r ystadeg cyngor ac yn un o'r ysgolau cyhoeddus mwyaf o Brydain. [09:47.480 -> 09:50.360] Felly, ni ddim yn eithaf cyflawni mewn y mhoblifoedd hefyd. [09:50.360 -> 09:53.080] Ac mae llawer o'r hyn y mae pobl yn ei ddysgrifio fel [09:53.080 -> 09:56.640] ymdrechion dweudwyr, fel mynd allan i ffwrdd [09:56.640 -> 09:59.680] ac roedd y cyhoedd yn unig yn ymddangos i'w ddod o'r ffordd [09:59.680 -> 10:02.560] i gael ei ddysgu yn y diwygiad ddwylo [10:02.560 -> 10:04.400] pan oedd yn unig bach o'i blant. [10:04.400 -> 10:08.740] Felly rwy'n credu bod yna adroddiad mawr yma ar gyfer unrhyw un sy'n byth yn anodd yw accepted in the dressing room culture where he was just a young boy. So I think there's a big message here for anyone that might be struggling is that make [10:08.740 -> 10:12.240] sure that you're surrounded by people that have got you back, that just accept [10:12.240 -> 10:16.340] you for who you are and want the best for you regardless of what they think [10:16.340 -> 10:21.060] they can gain from being in your company. Let's turn our attention now to [10:21.060 -> 10:25.080] Courtney Black who has created one of the most incredible [10:25.080 -> 10:26.840] health platforms on the internet. [10:26.840 -> 10:28.580] She is a bundle of energy. [10:28.580 -> 10:30.340] She's an incredible person to be around. [10:30.340 -> 10:31.940] She's done amazing things. [10:31.940 -> 10:33.360] And it was remarkable, wasn't it, Damien, [10:33.360 -> 10:34.960] for her to sit and explain to us [10:34.960 -> 10:36.320] that despite all of those things [10:36.320 -> 10:38.240] that society would deem successful [10:38.240 -> 10:40.640] and brilliant and amazing, [10:40.640 -> 10:43.740] she told us that she was crippled with anxiety, [10:43.740 -> 10:46.040] self-loathing and just hating [10:46.040 -> 10:48.880] herself and it's a very common conversation we've had on this podcast. [10:48.880 -> 10:56.200] Yeah and again I think if we go back into understanding why, Albert Ellis, [10:56.200 -> 11:01.360] one of the founding fathers of the modern-day psychology [11:01.360 -> 11:05.840] movement, talks about we all get engaged in crooked thinking. [11:05.840 -> 11:12.800] Sometimes our thoughts can often trip us up and one aspect of crooked thinking is perfectionism, [11:12.800 -> 11:18.440] believing that if it's not perfect it isn't worth anything. And Courtney was really great [11:18.440 -> 11:24.600] and articulate explaining how she felt that perfectionism was something that eventually [11:24.600 -> 11:26.000] blighted her life. She thought [11:26.000 -> 11:31.840] she had to look perfect. She thought everything she did had to be perfect. And that ended up [11:31.840 -> 11:38.480] creating that self-loathing that when she looked in the mirror, she saw somebody that wasn't perfect, [11:38.480 -> 11:44.720] but couldn't accept herself for who she was. So let's have a listen to Courtney explaining [11:44.720 -> 11:46.440] that very point from when she sat [11:46.440 -> 11:48.440] down with us, Jake. [11:48.440 -> 11:51.400] Courtney Maird When I was dancing, I was crippled with this [11:51.400 -> 11:58.000] like horrible feeling of like self-loathing and hated everything about myself. And I went, [11:58.000 -> 12:02.500] I took that into school, I took that into relationships, I took that into obviously [12:02.500 -> 12:05.000] getting older and having that eating disorder and being that [12:05.000 -> 12:06.000] judgmental person. [12:06.000 -> 12:10.680] I remember I rang my mum during the first lockdown and I called her and I said, mum, [12:10.680 -> 12:13.000] I cannot believe how happy I am. [12:13.000 -> 12:17.120] And I've been so unhappy for so many years and it's because every single morning I woke [12:17.120 -> 12:18.680] up and I pinched myself. [12:18.680 -> 12:20.880] I woke up and I judged myself. [12:20.880 -> 12:23.640] I woke up and I said everything that I hated about myself. [12:23.640 -> 12:28.920] I woke up and I thought everything was dependent on looks, everyone was judging me. [12:28.920 -> 12:34.200] I mean I was really, really skinny and even then like I got people coming up to me in [12:34.200 -> 12:37.400] the gym and saying, are you okay, like do you need some help? [12:37.400 -> 12:39.160] But none of my family ever noticed it. [12:39.160 -> 12:43.320] I mean they used to say to me, when I used to go to the family parties and they didn't [12:43.320 -> 12:48.600] know that I was taking food in the toilet, chewing it out, spitting it out and in the absolute depth of it, they [12:48.600 -> 12:52.040] just thought I was being miserable, they thought I was being moody, they said to me, why is [12:52.040 -> 12:56.560] Courtney not interacting, why is Courtney like picking at her food and that's the worst [12:56.560 -> 12:59.920] thing you can say to someone when they're in the depth of an eating disorder is why [12:59.920 -> 13:01.240] are you doing that? [13:01.240 -> 13:06.760] Look, if the things that Courtney says there resonate with you and you find [13:06.760 -> 13:11.280] yourself stuck in this perfectionism cycle, just look at the things that you do in your [13:11.280 -> 13:14.540] everyday life that perhaps are not helpful for you. I mean, one of the things I've had [13:14.540 -> 13:18.200] to do is stop looking at Instagram. And this is one of the things I really struggle with, [13:18.200 -> 13:23.240] Damien, is the perfection that society throws our way. And I worry so much about the young [13:23.240 -> 13:29.320] generation growing up in this era of social media, which we didn't, because we have to remind ourselves that people only [13:29.320 -> 13:33.720] put stuff on their Instagram and their TikTok and their Facebook and their Twitter when [13:33.720 -> 13:37.000] they've nailed it, when they've done it. You know, we no longer see the process anymore, [13:37.000 -> 13:41.760] we just see the outcome and the outcome is perfection and then we compare our own struggles [13:41.760 -> 13:47.600] to other people's perfection and then it just leads to this constant conversation on our heads about not being good enough. [13:47.600 -> 13:50.480] And you know, who do people speak to most in the day? [13:50.480 -> 13:54.720] It isn't their parents, it isn't their cousins or their friends or their colleagues or their [13:54.720 -> 13:56.840] children or anyone else. [13:56.840 -> 13:57.840] It's themselves. [13:57.840 -> 14:03.080] And if that conversation is not healthy, then it really can lead you down a tricky path. [14:03.080 -> 14:04.080] Well, definitely. [14:04.080 -> 14:07.760] I mean, just yesterday, two psychologists [14:07.760 -> 14:12.200] that I hugely admire, one is a former guest, Adam Grant. [14:12.200 -> 14:15.760] He put out a post that was related to research [14:15.760 -> 14:18.320] from another psychologist called Jonathan Haidt [14:18.320 -> 14:21.640] around the evidence, it's a study done [14:21.640 -> 14:25.000] with over 27,000 people, Jake, [14:25.240 -> 14:29.200] that says that owning a smartphone at a young age [14:29.200 -> 14:32.040] is a great predictor of having lower self-worth, [14:32.040 -> 14:34.400] motivation, and resilience. [14:34.400 -> 14:36.840] And actually, access to that smartphone [14:36.840 -> 14:38.880] increases the likelihood of sadness, [14:38.880 -> 14:42.520] anxiety, and aggression, especially for young girls. [14:42.520 -> 14:44.440] So the point is that smartphones [14:44.440 -> 14:45.280] and our access to all these kinds of apps especially for young girls. So the point [14:43.120 -> 14:48.880] is that smartphones and our access to [14:45.280 -> 14:50.880] all these kinds of apps actually sets us [14:48.880 -> 14:53.560] up to have poor mental health as [14:50.880 -> 14:56.680] adults. So what you've described [14:53.560 -> 14:58.480] about stepping away from Instagram and [14:56.680 -> 15:01.440] all those other apps is actually really [14:58.480 -> 15:03.360] healthy for you as well as for Flo and [15:01.440 -> 15:05.160] Seb as well that are going to follow your [15:03.360 -> 15:07.440] lead. By the way I'm not great at it. I still find myself getting sucked into the rabbit hole. [15:07.440 -> 15:13.280] It's just a bit less time. It's just like if I can be on there for five minutes, not five hours, [15:13.280 -> 15:17.920] and try my best not to get triggered, then I think you're moving in the right direction. [15:17.920 -> 15:20.080] But again, you can't chase perfection, right? [15:20.080 -> 15:23.360] You know, please, if you're a parent listening to this, because I'm a parent, [15:23.360 -> 15:28.160] and I'm suddenly thinking, oh man, my daughter's obsessed with having a mobile phone and she uses one of Harriet's [15:28.160 -> 15:32.640] old phones. It doesn't have a SIM card but she loves carrying it around and looking at it and [15:32.640 -> 15:37.600] things and she's 10 years old. Like, you know, don't feel like just because you haven't got [15:37.600 -> 15:43.280] something right that you're a poor parent or you're a bad friend or you're an awful partner or child. [15:43.280 -> 15:45.160] You know, all of us are just doing [15:45.160 -> 15:49.080] our best and in almost 200 episodes of the High Performance Podcast, you know, [15:49.080 -> 15:53.240] we've broken down high performance to doing the best you can where you are [15:53.240 -> 15:57.460] with what you've got. And in many ways that plays into what Mark Cavendish came [15:57.460 -> 16:01.760] on and spoke to us about Damien, because he tried to do the best he could where [16:01.760 -> 16:08.120] he was with what he had, but he still struggled and eventually was diagnosed with clinical depression. [16:08.120 -> 16:10.600] This is him telling us in his words. [16:12.160 -> 16:16.600] I got diagnosed with clinical depression and I still had Epsilon-Boron in my system. [16:16.600 -> 16:21.400] And they were like, okay, maybe you got it, you don't know which way it came. [16:21.400 -> 16:22.200] Sure. [16:22.200 -> 16:25.720] But as a guy with this kind of bulletproof self-belief [16:25.720 -> 16:26.880] that you'd hardware, [16:26.880 -> 16:31.880] you'd use that almost as a weapon to attack others with. [16:32.040 -> 16:35.120] How did you process that when they gave you that diagnosis? [16:35.120 -> 16:37.520] It was quite nice to have a answer. [16:37.520 -> 16:39.240] I knew something was wrong with me, [16:39.240 -> 16:42.480] but I didn't, you don't feel any way. [16:42.480 -> 16:44.880] It's not like, I think the word depression, [16:44.880 -> 16:46.500] people don't think you just can be sad. You're not even sad. You just don't feel any way. It's not like, I think the word depression, people don't think you just can be sad. [16:46.500 -> 16:49.100] You're not even sad, you just don't feel anything. [16:49.100 -> 16:49.940] Do you know? [16:49.940 -> 16:51.300] And you can be sad and things, [16:52.140 -> 16:53.220] but it's not a sadness. [16:53.220 -> 16:55.860] It's like something that gets here. [16:55.860 -> 16:58.060] It gets you quite irrationally. [16:58.060 -> 17:00.580] Like it doesn't make sense why something's annoyed you [17:00.580 -> 17:04.220] or why you're irritable about it. [17:04.220 -> 17:06.120] What sort of things in that period [17:07.360 -> 17:09.280] would you react strangely to? [17:10.360 -> 17:13.440] Okay, I know houses are noisy and kids going out, [17:13.440 -> 17:17.920] but like sometimes I'd hear every individual sound [17:17.920 -> 17:19.000] that was going on with the kids. [17:19.000 -> 17:21.920] And then even my wife, Peter, like her walking [17:23.160 -> 17:25.320] would be like, I just want to go out the house. [17:25.320 -> 17:27.440] That's her walking in the house. [17:27.440 -> 17:29.520] And she's my best friend, you know? [17:29.520 -> 17:32.240] And we'd never argue, we never do. [17:32.240 -> 17:35.080] And like stuff like that, like her walking annoying me. [17:35.080 -> 17:37.200] I think about it now, by the time you don't think about it [17:37.200 -> 17:39.040] and you don't think that's stupid [17:39.040 -> 17:44.040] because you don't know that whatever's going on, [17:44.440 -> 17:49.440] you just, yeah, you either have no feeling [17:49.560 -> 17:54.560] or just the most erratic feelings that don't make sense. [17:55.120 -> 17:59.040] Look, Damien, after that conversation particularly, [17:59.040 -> 18:00.280] we got so many messages. [18:00.280 -> 18:03.040] And I'll never forget the man that messaged to say [18:03.040 -> 18:04.640] he was struggling for years. [18:04.640 -> 18:06.800] He heard Mark talk about clinical depression. [18:06.800 -> 18:09.660] He recognized the signs and the symptoms Mark spoke about. [18:09.660 -> 18:11.020] He went to the doctor. [18:11.020 -> 18:12.420] He got diagnosed. [18:12.420 -> 18:13.420] He got treatment. [18:13.420 -> 18:18.080] And for the first time in years, was able to be a decent husband and a decent dad. [18:18.080 -> 18:21.760] That is the power of someone like Mark being brave enough to come and speak to us. [18:21.760 -> 18:24.720] Yeah, I remember that that message as well. [18:24.720 -> 18:27.040] He spoke about it was when Mark described [18:27.040 -> 18:29.680] the footsteps in his house of his children [18:29.680 -> 18:32.560] and his wife almost feeling deafening. [18:32.560 -> 18:34.680] And he said that was exactly the symptoms he's had [18:34.680 -> 18:38.240] that prompted him to go and seek help. [18:38.240 -> 18:39.800] I think there's another powerful point [18:39.800 -> 18:43.280] that Mark shared with us when he came and sat down, [18:43.280 -> 18:46.560] which was that before we'd suffered with mental health problems, a'r rhai sydd wedi'u rhannu gyda ni pan ddod a saethu, a oedd, cyn i ni wedi cael anergyniad o broblemau iechyd mental, [18:46.560 -> 18:52.240] roedd e wedi ymdrechu ar bobl sy'n eu defnyddio neu'n eu cyflawni fel ddifrifol. [18:52.240 -> 18:58.320] Roedd e'n debyg iawn o'r fath o'r ddifrifol neu'n ychydig o'r fath o'r fath o'r fath o unrhyw un [18:58.320 -> 19:00.800] sy'n teimlo eu bod yn rhaid iddo rannu nhw. [19:00.800 -> 19:03.120] Roedd e'n debyg iawn o'r ddiddorol cyflawni [19:03.120 -> 19:05.440] oherwydd pan oedd e'n cael ei ddiddorol gyda'i heriau ei hun, them and it was almost the ultimate irony that when he was afflicted with his own challenges [19:05.440 -> 19:11.280] it was only then did he come to fully appreciate the power of being able to share them and speak [19:11.280 -> 19:16.800] your truth openly. So again it goes back to the theme that we said at the start of this discussion [19:16.800 -> 19:23.600] Jake which is if you feel that you are in a tough moment, you're struggling or you do just need a [19:23.600 -> 19:25.920] time out, find somebody that you [19:25.920 -> 19:30.560] can trust, that you can open up to and speak to and that can often be the first [19:30.560 -> 19:35.600] step of being able to then go on a pathway of recovering your mental health [19:35.600 -> 19:40.720] to a place where you feel more productive. Come on then, let's have one [19:40.720 -> 19:44.560] final clip, let's hear from one final guest. Where would you like to take us to [19:44.560 -> 19:45.280] Damien? [19:45.280 -> 19:49.520] Well, how about we take a sneak preview of a guest that hasn't been on the podcast yet, [19:49.520 -> 19:51.520] but it will be dropping soon. [19:51.520 -> 19:52.800] Gary Barlow. [19:52.800 -> 19:55.760] I was recently watching the Coronation concert, [19:55.760 -> 19:59.600] where him and his bandmates from Take That headlined it. [19:59.600 -> 20:03.280] And it was really interesting to see a man that was so full of life, [20:03.280 -> 20:07.960] that was vibrant and just so brilliantly creative doing his thing. [20:07.960 -> 20:12.960] But my mind immediately went back to the story he told us of his wilderness years, [20:12.960 -> 20:17.120] when he'd left Take That first time and he'd set up on a solo career, [20:17.120 -> 20:20.920] and then it had crashed and burned spectacularly at [20:20.920 -> 20:25.420] the same time that his former bandmate Robbie Williams was in the ascendancy. [20:25.420 -> 20:27.000] And he spoke to us really powerfully [20:27.000 -> 20:29.020] about the sense of shame that he had, [20:29.020 -> 20:31.460] that he'd almost failed for the first time [20:31.460 -> 20:34.040] and didn't feel he had the skills or the resources [20:34.040 -> 20:35.880] to be able to cope with it. [20:35.880 -> 20:38.060] And again, there's a common theme here. [20:38.060 -> 20:40.880] He chose not to talk about this with anybody, [20:40.880 -> 20:45.580] especially not the person that was closest to him, his wife. Let's listen [20:45.580 -> 20:52.200] to what he had to say about how he handled it badly in those years. [20:52.200 -> 20:58.440] There was no way I could ever see myself recording or singing. I'd stopped singing [20:58.440 -> 21:06.000] completely, stopped playing on a piano and I hadn't done anything for like three years I'm gonna say. [21:06.000 -> 21:09.640] And it was driving me crazy. [21:09.640 -> 21:12.600] What's your day look like at this point in your life? [21:12.600 -> 21:17.680] So it was an interesting one because as my sort of career life went down the [21:17.680 -> 21:28.400] toilet my personal life was on and off because we'd had two kids. And so life was, life outside the studio was [21:28.400 -> 21:34.720] great and so I'd do this thing where I hear this a lot where I'd say, right I'm [21:34.720 -> 21:39.120] going into the studio now everybody and dad had go off to do his day's work and [21:39.120 -> 21:42.560] I'd literally sit in there and I'd just be looking around the room thinking what [21:42.560 -> 21:49.480] we're gonna do? What could I do that would be useful to anything? And I'd sit in [21:49.480 -> 21:53.440] there and I'd look at the clock and I'd come out at four and go anyway that was [21:53.440 -> 22:00.120] a good day and I'd act this day of being in the studio pretending I was doing [22:00.120 -> 22:07.440] something, I was doing nothing. There's some days just sort of watching the piano thinking I used to write [22:07.440 -> 22:13.280] big hits on that thing and I just it was it was slowly going insane really. [22:13.920 -> 22:14.640] Really? Yeah. [22:14.640 -> 22:15.440] Felt that bad? [22:15.440 -> 22:17.600] Oh it was it was really dark. [22:18.720 -> 22:23.840] So there you go that's Gary Barlow revealing what life was really like in his darkest times [22:23.840 -> 22:27.880] and that's an episode coming soon on the High Performance Podcast. The reason why I think it's [22:27.880 -> 22:31.380] important to finish with that Damien is because as someone who's been through my [22:31.380 -> 22:35.640] own mental health challenges over the years I always remind people if they're [22:35.640 -> 22:39.680] in a dark place or a difficult place that everything passes and Gary is the [22:39.680 -> 22:43.960] perfect example of someone who is testament to the fact that life couldn't [22:43.960 -> 22:47.320] have got much bleaker for him at that particular moment, you know, he was really struggling [22:47.320 -> 22:51.120] in a variety of different ways but everything passes, look at him now, he [22:51.120 -> 22:54.940] looks great, he feels good, he takes care of himself and the reason why that's [22:54.940 -> 22:58.480] important is because if someone is in a good place at the moment and thinks, oh [22:58.480 -> 23:02.520] this conversation about mental health doesn't apply to me, well remember [23:02.520 -> 23:07.960] everything passes, so if you're in a good place at the moment, you're not necessarily in a good place forever and [23:07.960 -> 23:11.240] maybe the best time to equip yourself for challenge is now. [23:11.240 -> 23:16.880] Exactly, and that goes back to so many of our guests that have told us, don't get [23:16.880 -> 23:21.640] high on your own supply, but don't get too low in your dark moments. I think [23:21.640 -> 23:26.240] just navigating your way through it is a sign of great mental health. I'd like to ymrwymiadau sy'n ystyried y byddwch chi'n ymwneud â'i drwyddo'n sylw ar gyfer iechyd gwych. [23:26.240 -> 23:31.360] Rwy'n hoffi i'w gysylltu â hynny. Mae llyfr anhygoel a wnaeth y dame ei ysgrifennu i Stephen Fry [23:31.360 -> 23:38.320] unwaith o ran ei iechyd gwych, ac fe wnaeth e'i gyfraithu trwy siarad â hi am y bydd y ffyrdd [23:38.320 -> 23:45.240] yn ffynnu yn ôl un diwrnod, ac mae'n rhaid i chi gael yr hoff a'r credu bod pethau'n mynd i mewn a bydd y ffyrdd yn You have to have that hope and belief that things do pass and the sun will shine again [23:45.240 -> 23:50.400] for all of us, however dark it might seem at a particular moment in time. [23:50.400 -> 23:51.400] That's lovely. [23:51.400 -> 23:52.720] Damian, thank you so much. [23:52.720 -> 23:53.720] Thanks, Jake. [23:53.720 -> 23:54.720] I love these conversations. [23:54.720 -> 23:59.680] It's nice to go back through the archive, but equally nice to reflect on lessons that [23:59.680 -> 24:01.560] we can all take away and apply. [24:01.560 -> 24:05.700] And if you're listening to this, please let this be a reminder to you [24:05.700 -> 24:07.460] that all around us, there are people [24:07.460 -> 24:08.880] that are finding life tough [24:08.880 -> 24:11.600] and they may well be people close to you [24:11.600 -> 24:13.480] when you have absolutely no idea [24:13.480 -> 24:14.760] that life is a challenge for them. [24:14.760 -> 24:16.160] And that's why we always encourage you [24:16.160 -> 24:18.000] to ask people twice, how are you? [24:18.000 -> 24:18.840] How are you? [24:18.840 -> 24:20.760] Ask that to a friend or when they say, yeah, I'm fine. [24:20.760 -> 24:23.640] Just follow up with no, like, how are you? [24:23.640 -> 24:25.120] And ask them on a scale of one to 10. It's a really great question to ask people. On a scale of one, like, how are you? And ask them on a scale of one to ten. [24:25.120 -> 24:29.040] It's a really great question to ask people on a scale of one to ten how you're doing, [24:29.040 -> 24:33.200] because I think that you can get the truth out of people. I always think you can also knock a [24:33.200 -> 24:37.360] couple of numbers off. So if someone says they're a ten, they're perhaps not. But if someone equally [24:37.360 -> 24:42.080] says I'm a four at the moment, you know, they may well be a two and really struggling. And then that [24:42.080 -> 24:50.020] leads to a deeper conversation. And if you're struggling and you want more help please check out jack.org that's J A A Q [24:50.020 -> 24:55.140] dot org. We were joined on the podcast by the founder of Jack, Danny Gray. We spoke [24:55.140 -> 24:57.820] to him about the fact that people struggling with mental health are not [24:57.820 -> 25:00.700] weak, people struggling with mental health are stronger than anybody else [25:00.700 -> 25:03.520] because they have to deal with those difficult mental health challenges and [25:03.520 -> 25:06.960] get on with their lives. There's also great information to be [25:06.960 -> 25:11.640] found from both MIND and also the Mental Health Foundation. There's so much out [25:11.640 -> 25:16.080] there. Please don't suffer in silence. Please do speak out. From myself, Damien, [25:16.080 -> 25:19.640] and the entire High Performance team, thank you so much for being with us and [25:19.640 -> 25:35.280] there's plenty more to come from High performance. We'll see you soon. Every year, one thing is always predictable. [25:35.280 -> 25:36.880] Postage costs go up. 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[26:16.520 -> 26:18.960] Let our family protect your family. [26:18.960 -> 26:21.320] With a free flu shot, it's all here. [26:21.320 -> 26:24.120] Fred Meyer, a world of care is in store. [26:24.120 -> 26:26.000] Flu vaccines are covered by most insurance plans [26:26.000 -> 26:27.160] and are free to the recipient. [26:27.160 -> 26:28.000] Check with your plan. [26:28.000 -> 26:30.080] Services and availability vary by location. [26:30.080 -> 26:31.800] Age and other restrictions may apply. [26:31.800 -> 26:33.800] Visit the pharmacy or site for details.