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On this episode: a rare and poignant conversation on the life, aspirations, and motivations of chef and TV icon, Gordon Ramsay.
“I don’t want to stay in my lane, I want to own my lane”
Gordon Ramsay is a chef, restaurateur and television presenter, known for Kitchen Nightmares, Masterchef and Hell’s Kitchen. In this conversation, Gordon delves deep into what really drives him, how to cultivate a winning mindset and the most crucial lessons from his career so far. He shares with Jake and Damian how growing up in a challenging household, living in 15 different homes and a difficult relationship with his father, instilled in him a sense of purpose.
After suffering a career-ending football injury as a teenager, Gordon found his passion for the culinary arts. He discusses how he found the strength and resilience to pick himself back up from such a setback. Alongside his career developments, Gordon also shares the key to strong and successful family relationships. He highlights the importance of commitment and making time, even during the heights of his career. Gordon also speaks candidly about the experience of losing a child and how he and his partner have dealt with the trauma, focusing on the basis of their relationship: friendship.
Looking ahead, Gordon considers his future goals, including the pursuit of a third Michelin Star in France, which he regards as his final swan song in the culinary world. Despite his remarkable achievements across a forty-year career, Gordon and his team are far from finished.
**Section 1: Gordon Ramsay's Upbringing and the Genesis of His Resilience**
* Gordon Ramsay's childhood was marked by challenges, including a difficult home environment and a strained relationship with his father. * Despite these adversities, Ramsay developed a sense of purpose and resilience, fueled by a desire to escape his circumstances and create a better life for himself. * Growing up, Ramsay witnessed the destructive behavior of his father and learned valuable lessons about becoming a responsible and involved parent.
**Section 2: Football Injury and the Pivot to Culinary Arts**
* Ramsay's promising football career was cut short due to a devastating knee injury, forcing him to reassess his life's direction. * With unwavering determination, Ramsay found a new passion in culinary arts and enrolled in a catering program. * He immersed himself in the culinary world, working tirelessly and learning from renowned chefs, including Marco Pierre White.
**Section 3: The Importance of Strong Family Relationships**
* Ramsay emphasizes the significance of commitment and making time for family, even amidst the demands of a successful career. * He credits his strong relationship with his wife, Tana, as a cornerstone of his personal and professional success. * Ramsay candidly shares his experience of losing a child and how he and his wife have navigated the trauma together, finding solace in their enduring friendship.
**Section 4: Future Goals and the Pursuit of Culinary Excellence**
* Ramsay expresses his ambition to achieve a third Michelin star in France, which he considers his ultimate culinary milestone. * Despite his remarkable achievements, Ramsay remains driven and focused on continuous improvement and innovation. * He acknowledges that his team's relentless efforts have been instrumental in his success and recognizes the importance of maintaining a strong and motivated team.
**Section 5: The Role of Resilience and Self-Motivation in Achieving Success**
* Ramsay underscores the importance of resilience and self-motivation in overcoming challenges and achieving success. * He emphasizes the need to cultivate a mindset that embraces setbacks as opportunities for growth and learning. * Ramsay believes that surrounding oneself with supportive and talented individuals is crucial for fostering a culture of high performance.
**Section 6: The Power of High Performance and the Pursuit of Perfection**
* Ramsay defines high performance as a relentless pursuit of excellence, even when faced with setbacks and challenges. * He emphasizes the importance of striving for perfection, not as an unattainable ideal, but as a motivator for continuous improvement. * Ramsay acknowledges that high performance can be demanding, but he believes that the rewards of achieving it are immense.
**Section 7: The Significance of Teamwork and Collaboration**
* Ramsay highlights the value of teamwork and collaboration in achieving success. * He believes that surrounding oneself with talented and dedicated individuals is essential for creating a high-performing team. * Ramsay emphasizes the importance of clear communication, mutual respect, and a shared commitment to excellence within a team.
**Section 8: The Importance of Adaptability and Embracing Change**
* Ramsay stresses the need for adaptability and embracing change in the face of evolving circumstances. * He believes that successful individuals are those who can quickly adapt to new challenges and seize opportunities that arise. * Ramsay encourages listeners to step outside their comfort zones and embrace new experiences as a means of personal and professional growth.
**Section 9: The Value of Hard Work and Dedication**
* Ramsay emphasizes the importance of hard work and dedication in achieving success. * He believes that there is no substitute for hard work and that true success is built on consistent effort and perseverance. * Ramsay encourages listeners to embrace challenges, push their limits, and never give up on their dreams.
**Section 10: The Importance of Self-Belief and Confidence**
* Ramsay highlights the significance of self-belief and confidence in achieving success. * He believes that having a strong belief in oneself and one's abilities is essential for overcoming obstacles and achieving goals. * Ramsay encourages listeners to cultivate self-confidence through positive self-talk, setting realistic goals, and celebrating their accomplishments.
Here's a detailed and comprehensive summary of the podcast episode transcript:
**Episode Overview:**
In this episode, Gordon Ramsay, a renowned chef, restaurateur, and television personality, engages in a candid conversation with Jake Humphrey and Damian Lewis. They delve into Gordon's life, motivations, and the lessons he has learned throughout his remarkable career.
**Key Points:**
1. **Driven by Purpose:** Gordon's upbringing in a challenging household, living in 15 different homes, and a difficult relationship with his father instilled in him a strong sense of purpose.
2. **Football Injury and Culinary Passion:** After suffering a career-ending football injury as a teenager, Gordon discovered his passion for the culinary arts. He found the strength and resilience to pick himself back up and pursue a new path.
3. **Strong Family Relationships:** Gordon emphasizes the importance of commitment and making time for family, even during the height of his career. He shares his experience of losing a child and how he and his partner have dealt with the trauma, focusing on the basis of their relationship: friendship.
4. **Future Goals:** Gordon considers his future goals, including the pursuit of a third Michelin Star in France, which he regards as his final swan song in the culinary world. Despite his remarkable achievements across a forty-year career, Gordon and his team are far from finished.
**Insights and Perspectives:**
1. **Cultivating a Winning Mindset:** Gordon stresses the importance of cultivating a winning mindset and embracing challenges. He believes in setting high standards, focusing on weaknesses, and continuously enhancing skills to become a better version of oneself.
2. **Importance of Hard Work and Attention to Detail:** Gordon highlights the significance of hard work, attention to detail, and relentless pursuit of excellence. He emphasizes the need for chefs to be passionate about their craft, constantly learning, and striving for perfection.
3. **Embracing Jeopardy:** Gordon discusses the role of jeopardy in his life and career. He believes that success requires an underlying level of jeopardy and that he thrives on the pressure and challenges that come with pursuing high performance.
4. **Authenticity in Television Persona:** Gordon asserts that he never intentionally crafted a TV persona. His on-screen demeanor is a genuine reflection of his passion, intensity, and dedication to his work.
5. **Commitment to Family:** Gordon emphasizes the importance of family and relationships. He acknowledges the challenges of balancing a demanding career with family life and shares his experience of dealing with the loss of a child.
**Conclusion:**
The podcast episode offers a rare and poignant glimpse into the life and motivations of Gordon Ramsay. His journey from a young footballer to a world-renowned chef and TV personality is a testament to his resilience, determination, and unwavering commitment to excellence. Gordon's insights on hard work, attention to detail, and embracing jeopardy provide valuable lessons for anyone aspiring to achieve high performance in their chosen field.
# Episode Summary: Gordon Ramsay on The High Performance Podcast
**Introduction:**
* Gordon Ramsay, a renowned chef, restaurateur, and TV presenter, engages in a candid conversation about his life, aspirations, and motivations. * Ramsay emphasizes the importance of cultivating a winning mindset and shares valuable lessons from his remarkable career.
**Early Life and Career:**
* Growing up in challenging circumstances, Ramsay faced adversity and lived in 15 different homes. * A career-ending football injury led him to discover his passion for culinary arts. * Ramsay highlights the strength and resilience he developed from overcoming setbacks.
**Balancing Family and Career:**
* Ramsay stresses the significance of commitment and making time for family, even amidst a demanding career. * He and his partner, Tana, prioritize communication and support to maintain a strong relationship. * Ramsay reflects on the trauma of losing a child and how they navigated that difficult experience together.
**Future Goals and Aspirations:**
* Ramsay expresses his desire to achieve a third Michelin star in France, which he considers his final culinary milestone. * He emphasizes the importance of consistency and longevity in maintaining high standards. * Ramsay remains passionate about his craft and is excited about the future of his culinary ventures.
**Keys to Success:**
* Ramsay emphasizes the value of brutal honesty within his team to drive improvement. * He believes in staying ahead of the competition and constantly innovating. * Ramsay highlights the importance of staying close to the action and the people who matter most.
**Non-Negotiable Behaviors:**
* Ramsay shares his three non-negotiable behaviors for success: * Being a sponge and constantly learning. * Taking feedback professionally and not personally. * Developing a thick skin and not worrying about pleasing everyone.
**Advice to Young Entrepreneurs:**
* Ramsay advises young entrepreneurs to stay hungry and fit, both physically and mentally. * He emphasizes the importance of staying independent and not mixing family and business. * Ramsay encourages young people to embrace challenges and learn from adversity.
**Final Message:**
* Ramsay's golden rule for living a high-performance life is to "never fear a storm, learn to dance in the rain." * He emphasizes the importance of embracing challenges and finding inspiration in adversity. * Ramsay encourages listeners to remain optimistic and take calculated risks to achieve their goals.
**Overall Message:**
Gordon Ramsay's journey is a testament to the power of perseverance, resilience, and unwavering passion. He emphasizes the importance of setting clear goals, maintaining a strong work ethic, and surrounding oneself with a supportive team. Ramsay's insights provide valuable lessons for anyone seeking to achieve high performance in their personal and professional lives.
Raw Transcript with Timestamps
[00:00.000 -> 00:05.800] Hi there, you're listening to High Performance, the award-winning podcast that unlocks the [00:05.800 -> 00:11.360] minds of some of the most fascinating people on the planet. I'm Jake Humphrey, and alongside [00:11.360 -> 00:17.640] Professor Damien Hughes, we've spoken to over 200 guests as we learn from the stories, successes [00:17.640 -> 00:24.120] and struggles from their lives, allowing us all to explore, be challenged and to grow. [00:24.120 -> 00:25.000] Here's what's coming up today. [00:26.000 -> 00:29.000] There is a strong chance to do well. [00:29.000 -> 00:34.000] It depends on you and it's finding gears [00:34.000 -> 00:37.000] that you never felt you had in your wheelhouse [00:37.000 -> 00:42.000] and self-motivation is critical. [00:42.000 -> 00:46.280] Growing up and watching the destruction that my father was creating [00:46.280 -> 00:49.640] and he taught me in many ways how to become a great father by doing the [00:49.640 -> 00:52.360] opposite what he showed me. Christmas morning, one of the most exciting [00:52.360 -> 00:56.920] mornings for a kid across the years should be that moment seeing your mum [00:56.920 -> 01:03.040] and dad. I didn't see my mum because she was out working. Hard work is about [01:03.040 -> 01:07.220] beating competition. We'd operate Monday to [01:07.220 -> 01:12.620] Saturday, 16-17 hours a day. We'd live on Le Causet and Mars bars and then Marco [01:12.620 -> 01:15.840] would say, hey look we've got four new members of staff starting on Monday. But [01:15.840 -> 01:19.260] these four guys and girls would walk in on Monday morning and we'd have bets [01:19.260 -> 01:24.180] who'd be there within 24 hours. They just disappeared, they could not stand the [01:24.180 -> 01:27.240] heat and so it made you stronger. [01:27.240 -> 01:29.040] I strive for perfection. [01:29.040 -> 01:31.080] My life is about high performance. [01:31.080 -> 01:33.000] And when I haven't got that high performance, [01:33.000 -> 01:34.480] I need to up the jeopardy. [01:34.480 -> 01:37.560] And there's not one plate, one diner, [01:37.560 -> 01:40.720] one member of the team ever taken for granted. [01:40.720 -> 01:41.960] Stay close to the action. [01:44.640 -> 01:49.560] Okay, so Gordon Ramsay on the High Performance podcast. One of the things that isn't always [01:49.560 -> 01:54.000] talked about is the tough times that Gordon's gone through in his career. I think lots of [01:54.000 -> 01:57.280] people know that he had a really difficult start in life. We'll talk about that in this [01:57.280 -> 02:02.040] episode. But the truth is that they built his resilience. They created the man that [02:02.040 -> 02:08.540] has gone on to have incredible success. So actually when those tough times returned during his TV career, during his cooking career, [02:08.540 -> 02:12.760] when he had to take big risks, when he was living with fear about what his next move [02:12.760 -> 02:18.560] was going to be, it was the resiliency built in those early years that saw him through. [02:18.560 -> 02:21.800] You're going to hear about that and you're going to hear about so much more. [02:21.800 -> 02:23.080] So let's get straight to it then. [02:23.080 -> 02:45.340] He's an incredible guest on this podcast. I'm so excited to bring you this conversation as we welcome Gordon Ramsey to High Performance. We thought we'd bring our prices down. So to help us, we brought in a reverse auctioneer, [02:45.340 -> 02:46.940] which is apparently a thing. [02:46.940 -> 02:49.100] Mint Mobile Unlimited Premium Wireless. [02:49.100 -> 02:50.420] How do I get 30, 30, I better get 30, [02:50.420 -> 02:52.140] I better get 20, 20, 20, I better get 20, 20, [02:52.140 -> 02:55.180] I better get 15, 15, 15, 15, just 15 bucks a month. [02:55.180 -> 02:59.180] So, give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. [02:59.180 -> 03:01.020] $45 up front for three months plus taxes and fees. [03:01.020 -> 03:02.420] Promote it for new customers for a limited time. [03:02.420 -> 03:03.660] Unlimited more than 40 gigabytes per month, [03:03.660 -> 03:05.480] slows, full terms at mintmobile.com. [03:08.080 -> 03:10.240] On our podcast, we love to highlight businesses [03:10.240 -> 03:11.760] that are doing things a better way [03:11.760 -> 03:13.720] so you can live a better life. [03:13.720 -> 03:17.080] And that's why when I found Mint Mobile, I had to share. 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So say goodbye to your overpriced wireless [03:56.760 -> 04:01.900] plans, those jaw-dropping monthly bills, those unexpected overages, because all the plans [04:01.900 -> 04:09.680] come with unlimited talk and text and high-speed data delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. Use your own phone with any [04:09.680 -> 04:14.320] Mint Mobile plan, bring your phone number along with all your existing contacts. [04:14.320 -> 04:18.600] So ditch overpriced wireless with Mint Mobile's limited time deal and get premium [04:18.600 -> 04:23.240] wireless service for just 15 bucks a month. To get this new customer offer and [04:23.240 -> 04:46.000] your new three month unlimited wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month go to By the way, there is some bad language, as you might expect, in this episode of High Additional taxes, fees and restrictions apply. See Mint Mobile for details. [04:46.000 -> 04:49.320] By the way, there is some bad language, as you might expect, in this episode of High [04:49.320 -> 04:50.320] Performance. [04:50.320 -> 04:57.120] Well, Gordon, first of all, thank you so much for finding the time to join us. [04:57.120 -> 04:58.240] Good to see you, bud. [04:58.240 -> 05:02.080] And you. What is high performance? [05:02.080 -> 05:05.120] High performance for me is a double-edged sword. [05:05.120 -> 05:06.900] It's dangerous. [05:06.900 -> 05:08.900] Very very few make it. [05:08.900 -> 05:16.280] And then when you're on that edge, you understand the consequences when you can't get a high [05:16.280 -> 05:17.800] performance. [05:17.800 -> 05:27.480] So certain issues with perfection, it's hard to sort of congregate your mind on a daily basis, but [05:27.480 -> 05:32.080] high performance is about relentlessness in my mind. [05:32.080 -> 05:33.080] So are you a perfectionist? [05:33.080 -> 05:34.560] I'm a self-confessed perfectionist. [05:34.560 -> 05:40.800] Yeah, I had a proper insight to perfection early on in my career. [05:40.800 -> 05:45.920] And that's a path that you, you know, there's lanes in life, isn't there? And I'm [05:45.920 -> 05:52.400] done with that bullshit about staying in your lane. I want to own my lane. And that's high [05:52.400 -> 05:58.040] performance on a daily basis. I need that shot. I think it's one of the most exciting [05:58.040 -> 06:06.840] industries to be in as a restaurateur, chef, cook, whatever you want to call it. But there's also the shit end of the stick. [06:06.840 -> 06:12.260] There's the double shifts and defrosting frozen food and sticking shit in a fryer. [06:12.260 -> 06:14.960] That's the lower divisions of food. [06:14.960 -> 06:18.400] And I was determined to get the fuck out of there early. [06:18.400 -> 06:28.120] Because when you start in this industry, you go through those divisions. I remember a chef back in Stratford-upon-Avon where I [06:28.120 -> 06:33.160] grew up was showing me how to make a roast potato and he was peeling the potatoes, blanching [06:33.160 -> 06:39.920] them in the deep fat fryer and then sprinkling fucking bovril dust over the top and that [06:39.920 -> 06:47.800] was the roast potato. So that scared the shit out of me. And I think you need to have both ends of the spectrum to understand high performance, [06:47.800 -> 06:53.000] but it's about climbing that division and owning it. [06:53.000 -> 06:57.920] So I'm interested where the understanding of what you're capable of comes from. [06:57.920 -> 07:02.240] Can you remember the first time that you saw or saw the possibilities that life can offer [07:02.240 -> 07:03.640] if you actually go for something? [07:03.640 -> 07:05.600] Yeah, that's a good question. [07:05.600 -> 07:09.560] I think when I stood alongside Marco, Marco P.O. [07:09.560 -> 07:16.600] White, for two years side by side, 16 hours a day, relentless, because I was in that pursuit [07:16.600 -> 07:23.580] of perfection and this guy put food on a plate like Picasso and I wanted to get that level [07:23.580 -> 07:27.920] of discipline. And so Marco was up north with some food critic [07:27.920 -> 07:31.800] away for the weekend and for some unknown reason, I can't remember, but he couldn't [07:31.800 -> 07:34.920] come back to the restaurant to open it after the holidays. And all of a sudden I was in [07:34.920 -> 07:38.920] charge. And he was on the phone every two minutes explaining what to do, but I knew [07:38.920 -> 07:43.480] what to do, but I've never been given the reins. And at 22, when you're dropped in the [07:43.480 -> 07:45.800] shit like that, it's sink or swim. [07:45.800 -> 07:50.980] So I didn't really understand the amount of pressure I was under at that particular time. [07:50.980 -> 07:53.940] But what I did see was empty plates coming back from the restaurant. [07:53.940 -> 07:58.140] And it was a high octane, two mission star establishment. [07:58.140 -> 08:00.860] And every customer was licking their lips. [08:00.860 -> 08:03.700] Every customer couldn't quite believe how good the food was. [08:03.700 -> 08:10.160] And it was that moment, shit, Marco's not here, but what he's given me and taught me, I've just [08:10.160 -> 08:16.920] replicated. Now I need to become individual. I need to step away from what he's shown me [08:16.920 -> 08:20.080] and I need to search for my own DNA. [08:20.080 -> 08:25.220] But you already though had something because you don't end up in a Marco Pier White kitchen [08:25.220 -> 08:32.320] unless you're already grafting, chasing perfection, thinking that you actually deserve to be there. [08:32.320 -> 08:34.720] Like even further back, I know you played football as a young guy. [08:34.720 -> 08:35.720] Yeah. [08:35.720 -> 08:39.680] Like, was this mindset that Gordon was destined for something there when you were 12, 13, [08:39.680 -> 08:40.680] 14, 15? [08:40.680 -> 08:41.960] Ooh, that's a tough one. [08:41.960 -> 08:43.240] I was hungry. [08:43.240 -> 08:48.560] I was in pursuit of something to better myself. [08:48.560 -> 08:53.040] It's interesting when you grow up with a disadvantaged childhood at the time you don't know it's [08:53.040 -> 08:54.280] that bad. [08:54.280 -> 09:00.120] But there is embarrassing moments at school where you're called out to do the sort of [09:00.120 -> 09:04.160] the photographs and you got to go with the family because I had my brother and my sister [09:04.160 -> 09:08.480] at the same school because you weren't allowed to do individually because your parents would never pay for that. [09:08.480 -> 09:12.280] And then there was embarrassment every day when you went into the refectory for lunch. [09:12.280 -> 09:15.000] We had lunch and vouchers and there was a separate queue. [09:15.000 -> 09:20.040] And so it was like, council house kids on the left hand side and posh kids on the right [09:20.040 -> 09:21.040] hand side. [09:21.040 -> 09:25.740] And that give you a complex that give you a sort of a stern warning to get [09:25.740 -> 09:27.120] your shit together. [09:27.120 -> 09:31.480] So I think that's what helped shape me for that level of hunger to get focus because [09:31.480 -> 09:34.240] I wasn't embarrassed about what my mom put on the table. [09:34.240 -> 09:40.820] I was embarrassed about the way it was segregated in a way that you were made to feel separate [09:40.820 -> 09:45.960] from the classroom because your mom and dad couldn't afford to give you any money for school lunch. [09:45.960 -> 09:51.120] But also a lot of people will see you as the hugely famous, hugely successful chef and [09:51.120 -> 09:53.160] not maybe know that story. [09:53.160 -> 09:58.760] When you think about how hard those days were, where does your mind take you back to if you're [09:58.760 -> 10:03.360] happy to share actually how difficult it was? [10:03.360 -> 10:05.080] Yeah, I'm grateful. [10:05.080 -> 10:07.560] I'm grateful for those moments. [10:07.560 -> 10:08.880] There was no distractions in those days. [10:08.880 -> 10:16.240] So you sort of clung on to anything that's shiny and spending time with my mom at work, [10:16.240 -> 10:21.880] getting into this little tiny restaurant, helping her prep vegetables was a godsend. [10:21.880 -> 10:25.280] That was before football practice, that was after school. [10:25.280 -> 10:29.320] But also just growing up and watching her handle three jobs, Christmas morning, one [10:29.320 -> 10:34.200] of the most exciting mornings for a kid across the years should be that moment seeing your [10:34.200 -> 10:35.200] mom and dad. [10:35.200 -> 10:38.040] But I didn't see my mom because she was out working. [10:38.040 -> 10:41.600] So you then understand just how hard life can be. [10:41.600 -> 10:45.760] You don't walk around looking for a pity party. You just want to better yourself. [10:45.760 -> 10:50.960] You want to put a new benchmark under the name Ramsey and create something different. [10:50.960 -> 10:57.560] How did you take the mindset of, you know, because anyone that has that early on, there [10:57.560 -> 10:59.280] is a moment where they think, why is this my life? [10:59.280 -> 11:01.800] Why do I have challenge? [11:01.800 -> 11:07.280] How did you go about turning those negative experiences into positive action? [11:07.280 -> 11:11.040] Yeah, I've always been a solution solver. I've never sat there. [11:11.040 -> 11:12.040] Even at that age? [11:12.040 -> 11:16.560] Even at that age. Because I got involved with sport early on, and so I was super fit, good [11:16.560 -> 11:24.280] at what I did. And I think having a chance to get involved with football at a high level, [11:24.280 -> 11:25.280] and that's been taken away from [11:25.280 -> 11:26.600] you was a big blow. [11:26.600 -> 11:31.300] And so you don't sit there and become bitter for the rest of your life, it's just dust [11:31.300 -> 11:32.300] yourself down. [11:32.300 -> 11:37.100] Mom always told me, you know, deal with it, get on it early, get your priorities right, [11:37.100 -> 11:38.680] you know, focus on what you want out of life. [11:38.680 -> 11:45.240] And so those traits still sit there daily, even today. What do you want to have today? [11:45.240 -> 11:48.280] What's the solution when we get problems? [11:48.280 -> 11:53.860] So growing up and watching the destruction that my father was creating, and he taught [11:53.860 -> 11:57.580] me in many ways how to become a great father by doing the opposite what he showed me. [11:57.580 -> 12:03.360] And so I was desperate for that chance to get out of that mess and create something [12:03.360 -> 12:05.200] special for myself. [12:05.200 -> 12:07.520] What sort of father was he? [12:07.520 -> 12:14.760] Didn't really get on with him in a way that he in many ways was maybe some fair to say [12:14.760 -> 12:20.520] a failed magician, but he was into music, played with the Marty Wilds, had these band [12:20.520 -> 12:22.040] did records etc. [12:22.040 -> 12:26.580] But I remember on multiple occasions, we're going in and out of bars, lumping gear every [12:26.580 -> 12:28.800] Saturday night and then sat watching him. [12:28.800 -> 12:34.760] And it was never a fun evening because as the drinks got bigger, the room got feistier [12:34.760 -> 12:39.440] and all of a sudden, you're sort of rushed out in the back of a transit van and you're [12:39.440 -> 12:40.440] sort of disappearing. [12:40.440 -> 12:42.720] So I never really had that connect with him. [12:42.720 -> 12:43.800] We never really bonded. [12:43.800 -> 12:46.320] We never really spent a lot of time together. [12:46.320 -> 12:50.680] So I make up that now having two sons, Jack and Oscar. [12:50.680 -> 12:53.680] And so we learn from the defaults, don't you? [12:53.680 -> 12:58.680] And mom was my mother and father, because that's how strong she was. [12:58.680 -> 13:00.800] And that's admirable from a woman. [13:00.800 -> 13:06.320] That was a connect that I didn't envisage because I never thought I'd be looking [13:06.320 -> 13:12.960] towards my mom for dad's incompetence. And she filled that void beautifully and that's [13:12.960 -> 13:15.440] an amazing bond when you got that with your mom. [13:15.440 -> 13:20.600] And you mentioned football at an early age, you were playing at Rangers and you said it [13:20.600 -> 13:25.200] gets taken away from you. Your career was ended really early on by injury, right? [13:25.200 -> 13:26.200] Rapidly. [13:26.200 -> 13:30.640] Yeah, I was fit as a fiddle, you know, six foot two, naturally left footed. [13:30.640 -> 13:35.520] Very very few individuals got past me and so I was, yeah, I was a steam train. [13:35.520 -> 13:40.720] I remember playing a testimonial for the first team, got my first call up. [13:40.720 -> 13:46.800] I think of course he'd just broken into the first team, he was playing for Scotland under 21s I was 18 at the time. [13:46.800 -> 13:52.400] David McPherson just got his first big call up and so all of a sudden you're in this amazing [13:52.400 -> 13:56.560] team you're on the sheet your name's there number three on the back of the shirt and [13:56.560 -> 14:03.520] I went in for this 50-50 tackle and it was it was crunch and I laid there in such pain [14:03.520 -> 14:07.280] tore my crucial ligament and smashed my cartilage. [14:07.280 -> 14:11.360] Then we didn't have private health care, you didn't get whisked off to Germany for the [14:11.360 -> 14:14.600] latest surgeon, you're on the rubbish ship, you're in the scrap heap. [14:14.600 -> 14:18.560] Because there's four or five guys behind me instantly to take my place. [14:18.560 -> 14:19.560] That was devastating. [14:19.560 -> 14:25.280] Then I came back down to Banbury in Oxfordshire and I lived in a council flat with my sister [14:25.280 -> 14:33.280] and then got into college, got into catering as a way of becoming independent and moving [14:33.280 -> 14:37.680] further away from the upset that was in my mind on a daily basis. [14:37.680 -> 14:38.680] How painful was that? [14:38.680 -> 14:43.160] Brutally painful, especially when your mates are making it and they're progressing and [14:43.160 -> 14:49.240] you're seeing the headlines, you're purposely not watching the news, you're purposely not finding out the scores at five to five on [14:49.240 -> 14:52.040] a Saturday afternoon because you want to move away from that. [14:52.040 -> 14:56.600] So it was that moment that my mom taught me, dust yourself down, pick yourself up and go [14:56.600 -> 14:57.600] again. [14:57.600 -> 15:02.140] And then that freedom with the connection with food all of a sudden started to really [15:02.140 -> 15:06.480] resonate the sort of the breadth of what you need to understand. [15:06.480 -> 15:12.720] And then I got to London, I had to head to London, I had to go into somewhere unique [15:12.720 -> 15:15.180] in order to learn unique things. [15:15.180 -> 15:19.100] Because if you want to be one of the best, you need to work with the best. [15:19.100 -> 15:22.720] And it's not about money, it's not about hours, you just need to work with the best, whatever [15:22.720 -> 15:24.700] they do, you need to follow suit. [15:24.700 -> 15:27.320] That's a short termterm investment for a long-term gain. [15:27.320 -> 15:32.600] I wonder, you know, whether as difficult as those early years were with your relationship [15:32.600 -> 15:36.480] with your dad and, you know, as you said, basically humiliation at school. [15:36.480 -> 15:38.040] You're in the poor kids' queue, right? [15:38.040 -> 15:39.040] Yeah. [15:39.040 -> 15:42.200] I wonder whether actually those experiences equipped you for, at the end of your football [15:42.200 -> 15:48.160] career, to kind of find a way forwards rather, you know, people get derailed for years after that kind of. [15:48.160 -> 15:53.720] Yeah, well I had a similar parallel because I could see my father not making it and breaking [15:53.720 -> 15:59.960] out in music and not being sought after, couldn't earn a living and look after the family full [15:59.960 -> 16:06.980] time. He swam for Scotland at the age 15. And so he had this incredible, strong sort [16:06.980 -> 16:13.480] of sport background, but I could see this failed, you know, music guy that wasn't making [16:13.480 -> 16:17.880] it money was getting less and less. The gigs weren't coming in. And all of a sudden, you [16:17.880 -> 16:22.840] know, he ended up playing in crappy bars and sat there with a little pile of CDs, which [16:22.840 -> 16:28.760] was embarrassing. So I witnessed him clinging on to something that was never going to happen. [16:28.760 -> 16:33.360] And it was to the family's detriment that they all struggled because of him hanging [16:33.360 -> 16:36.240] on to something that didn't provide for the family. [16:36.240 -> 16:42.200] And so in many ways, with that shock of having football taken away and witnessing my dad [16:42.200 -> 16:46.180] clinging on to something for too long, it made me more decisive. [16:46.180 -> 16:47.700] And in business, you need to be decisive. [16:47.700 -> 16:52.920] And so from an early age, I was super on it to what I needed to do to get out the mess [16:52.920 -> 16:53.920] that I was born in. [16:53.920 -> 16:56.500] It's a good reminder, isn't it, for all of us that just because something's hard for [16:56.500 -> 16:59.060] you doesn't mean it isn't actually good for you. [16:59.060 -> 17:02.420] If you managed to sort of resolve that in your own head, that maybe you are grateful [17:02.420 -> 17:06.080] for some of those early experiences because you wouldn't be sitting here having this conversation. [17:06.080 -> 17:07.080] Super grateful. [17:07.080 -> 17:09.800] Listen, we haven't been diagnosed with a horrendous disease. [17:09.800 -> 17:10.800] Yeah. [17:10.800 -> 17:11.800] You haven't been given six months to live. [17:11.800 -> 17:13.160] So you got to, you got to live in the real world. [17:13.160 -> 17:14.160] I do that. [17:14.160 -> 17:15.480] I calibrate that on a daily basis. [17:15.480 -> 17:18.180] So I got over that early. [17:18.180 -> 17:19.920] And then I had father figures in my life. [17:19.920 -> 17:20.920] Marco P.I. [17:20.920 -> 17:23.000] White was like a big brother father figure. [17:23.000 -> 17:25.880] Albert Rue at La Gavroche was another father figure. [17:25.880 -> 17:31.080] Guy Savoy in Paris, all of a sudden you start going to their wings and once your talent [17:31.080 -> 17:36.120] in that division, then all they do is pass you on to absolute amazing establishments [17:36.120 -> 17:38.760] to sort of learn. [17:38.760 -> 17:44.480] I think the secret early on is every time I got to a level, next time I went into another [17:44.480 -> 17:45.440] establishment I came down a level, next time I went into another establishment, I came [17:45.440 -> 17:47.980] down a level to learn even greater. [17:47.980 -> 17:51.560] Because sometimes when you jump too high, the learning stops because they want to know [17:51.560 -> 17:53.340] what you've just been taught. [17:53.340 -> 17:57.760] So that was bullshit for me because it wasn't making me any better. [17:57.760 -> 18:03.240] And I was on that pursuit to Ghana, all this info, Intel, Intel, everywhere I went, give [18:03.240 -> 18:04.300] me the Intel. [18:04.300 -> 18:05.320] What is it? [18:05.320 -> 18:06.600] How does that Saldo work perfectly? [18:06.600 -> 18:11.040] How do you, how do you bone out a pigeon beautifully and not waste anything on that carcass? [18:11.040 -> 18:16.080] And so that Intel was this, this gathering of incredible stuff. [18:16.080 -> 18:18.800] Let's talk about where it all began. [18:18.800 -> 18:22.080] So you've taken the leap, you've headed down, you've gone to technical college. [18:22.080 -> 18:23.080] Yeah. [18:23.080 -> 18:25.640] You're living in a flat. [18:25.640 -> 18:30.480] When you take yourself back to the Gordon Ramsay mindset at that point, what was it? [18:30.480 -> 18:36.160] Listen, there was a charity called Bambury Roundtable and I think every town has these [18:36.160 -> 18:38.100] roundtable charities. [18:38.100 -> 18:40.660] They paid for my first set of fucking whites. [18:40.660 -> 18:42.940] They bought my first set of knives. [18:42.940 -> 18:45.060] They bought my first floppy hat. [18:45.060 -> 18:47.680] And so everyone asked, why did you do so much for charity? [18:47.680 -> 18:49.120] It started with charity. [18:49.120 -> 18:54.680] And so if it wasn't for that incredible moment, I think it was 62 quid for a set of knives, [18:54.680 -> 18:57.840] two chef jackets, horrendous trousers, and these fucking ridiculous clogs that no one [18:57.840 -> 18:59.120] could walk in. [18:59.120 -> 19:04.080] And so all of a sudden these knives were your possession and your sort of tools. [19:04.080 -> 19:06.300] And so I was polishing them sharpening every day. [19:06.300 -> 19:10.600] And I remember nipping the end off one of them once and I was gutted the fact that these [19:10.600 -> 19:11.600] knives were cheap. [19:11.600 -> 19:14.960] These were 17 pound for a set of like 25 knives. [19:14.960 -> 19:16.360] But you respect them. [19:16.360 -> 19:22.520] And so that moment for me was, you've got all the tools, now do something with it. [19:22.520 -> 19:27.460] And then there's that level of insecurity that can't be apparent when you're standing [19:27.460 -> 19:32.920] next to such talent because you want to know what they've got and you have to be a sponge [19:32.920 -> 19:37.440] without insecurity because the insecurity stops you from learning because you think [19:37.440 -> 19:38.900] you're never going to get there. [19:38.900 -> 19:42.920] And so kitchens are tempestuous, boisterous environments. [19:42.920 -> 19:48.200] And always you see that piston firing every day and they're all on the make because they [19:48.200 -> 19:49.200] want to be superstars. [19:49.200 -> 19:51.280] And it's a tough environment. [19:51.280 -> 19:55.640] But I then related those moments back to the dressing room at Ibrox. [19:55.640 -> 20:00.560] And if you think a kitchen is tough, wait to see or hear some of the shit you get told [20:00.560 -> 20:05.560] and called in a dressing room, when no one one's listening and you're getting pummeled. [20:05.560 -> 20:12.680] So that gave me the armor and that coat of resilience to get on in the industry, not [20:12.680 -> 20:15.440] fast-tracked but to take the blows when necessary. [20:15.440 -> 20:17.480] Let's talk about the steps then. [20:17.480 -> 20:18.480] Yeah. [20:18.480 -> 20:22.460] Who was the first person that you met, the first chef where you thought that is what [20:22.460 -> 20:24.760] I want to be? [20:24.760 -> 20:26.880] I'd say Marco Pio Wine. [20:26.880 -> 20:33.280] When we came down to London for a big exhibition in the industry, it was called Hotel Olympia. [20:33.280 -> 20:37.040] And we came down for the weekend from Banbury. [20:37.040 -> 20:40.960] And we never got anywhere near a famous chef. [20:40.960 -> 20:46.240] The closest we got was to a neckerchief belonging to Anton Moselman that [20:46.240 -> 20:52.080] was in a glass box outside the fucking Dorchester Hotel. And we drive by this hotel and we were [20:52.080 -> 20:58.560] sort of told to get off the bus and go look at Anton Edelman's white starched hat and [20:58.560 -> 21:04.120] his neckerchief. And that was the closest we got. And so think about that, you know, [21:04.120 -> 21:06.800] and then standing next to someone like Marco, you're [21:06.800 -> 21:11.880] grateful, but you're going to be one of the most talented sponges he's ever had by his [21:11.880 -> 21:12.880] side. [21:12.880 -> 21:17.520] So you process it quickly when you're on that drive for success. [21:17.520 -> 21:20.000] And at this point, what is the drive? [21:20.000 -> 21:24.280] Is the drive, I want to become successful? [21:24.280 -> 21:26.500] Is the drive I want to escape where I've come from? Is the drive I want to become successful? Is the drive I want to escape where I've come from? [21:26.500 -> 21:28.480] Is the drive I just absolutely love food? [21:28.480 -> 21:29.640] Like what was the- [21:29.640 -> 21:30.640] I saw a chance. [21:30.640 -> 21:33.080] I saw a chance of becoming unique. [21:33.080 -> 21:35.960] I think we're all blessed with that in our life somewhere. [21:35.960 -> 21:37.280] How did you see that though? [21:37.280 -> 21:41.280] I could sense it because it made me ignite. [21:41.280 -> 21:45.000] I could see this incredible beginning of something unique. [21:45.000 -> 21:49.880] I think when we look at individuals, big heads in our lives and we want to aspire to become [21:49.880 -> 21:53.760] them, but when they give you what they've got, all of a sudden there's this treasure [21:53.760 -> 21:55.120] chest of uniqueness. [21:55.120 -> 21:57.480] And so that was unfolding weekly. [21:57.480 -> 22:01.440] And then there'd be new kids starting in that kitchen and within 48 hours, they were gone. [22:01.440 -> 22:02.440] They couldn't handle the heat. [22:02.440 -> 22:03.440] How did that make you feel? [22:03.440 -> 22:04.440] Stronger. [22:04.440 -> 22:07.600] Yeah, because we thrive on other people's weaknesses in that business. [22:07.600 -> 22:10.000] And that's a selfish thing to admit. [22:10.000 -> 22:11.160] But I'm gonna be honest with you. [22:11.160 -> 22:14.480] We thrive on other people's weaknesses, especially in the kitchen. [22:14.480 -> 22:17.760] That gave you hype. [22:17.760 -> 22:23.560] And it gave you the chest beating moment where you can stand tall. [22:23.560 -> 22:26.880] And I used to laugh because we were short staffed. [22:26.880 -> 22:31.520] We'd operate Monday to Saturday, 16, 17 hours a day. [22:31.520 -> 22:32.880] Sunday off, you're fucked. [22:32.880 -> 22:38.000] I mean, I used to wake up on Sunday midday and I was fucked. [22:38.000 -> 22:41.120] I mean, just physically, mentally exhausted. [22:41.120 -> 22:43.400] We'd live on Lucas Aid and Mars bars. [22:43.400 -> 22:45.000] And then Marco would say, hey, look, we've got four new members of staff starting on Monday. Don't worry. We're going on Lucas Aid and Mars bars and then Marco would say, hey look we [22:45.000 -> 22:48.080] got four new members of staff starting on Monday. Don't worry, we're gonna cut your [22:48.080 -> 22:51.200] hours, we're gonna start taking half days off during the week and we'll get down to [22:51.200 -> 22:55.840] five and a half day week. You think back then five and a half day week and that was the [22:55.840 -> 23:01.200] dream. But these four guys and girls would walk in on Monday morning and we'd have bets [23:01.200 -> 23:05.980] who'd be there within 24 hours. They just disappeared. They could not stand the heat. [23:05.980 -> 23:08.340] And so it made you stronger. [23:08.340 -> 23:13.060] Was there ever a moment where you thought, this is relentless, this is ridiculous, this [23:13.060 -> 23:18.340] is not what I thought it was, I can't handle the heat, I'm going to get out of the kitchen? [23:18.340 -> 23:19.340] Never. [23:19.340 -> 23:20.340] Not once? [23:20.340 -> 23:21.340] Fuck no, never. [23:21.340 -> 23:22.340] I wanted it. [23:22.340 -> 23:27.560] I absolutely wanted it because I could see this opening of escape. [23:27.560 -> 23:33.520] I could see the grind, the grit, determination all paying off and I was becoming better, [23:33.520 -> 23:34.520] don't forget. [23:34.520 -> 23:39.760] So you got to sort of self-reflect a little bit because all of a sudden I'd mastered a [23:39.760 -> 23:45.660] tortellini, I could make beautiful pasta, I understood how to braise, you know, short ribs. [23:45.660 -> 23:48.860] And so that's the payoff. [23:48.860 -> 23:53.700] And when you're not getting that substance back and you're not learning on that level, [23:53.700 -> 23:55.180] then it's time to quit. [23:55.180 -> 23:57.340] But I was, I was learning so fast. [23:57.340 -> 24:02.100] I mean, it was just, it was, it was incredible to what I was gaining. [24:02.100 -> 24:05.280] You know, when I was a teenager, I lost my grandma to suicide, right? [24:05.280 -> 24:09.280] Which is so difficult, because we were, it's about as close as you can get, grandma and [24:09.280 -> 24:10.280] grandson. [24:10.280 -> 24:14.320] And then I was wondering, why did life change so much for me straight after that? [24:14.320 -> 24:19.720] And I saw a quote not long ago saying, people who've gone through trauma have a fire lit [24:19.720 -> 24:22.760] inside them that people who haven't can never quite understand. [24:22.760 -> 24:25.720] I'm sort of, there's a sense of that now, I think. [24:25.720 -> 24:26.720] Yeah, there is. [24:26.720 -> 24:28.280] I mean, trauma is a tough word. [24:28.280 -> 24:34.360] I mean, I think I put that down to experience because it didn't take me out. [24:34.360 -> 24:42.680] I also had the parallel of my little brother, 15 months younger than me, as a heroin addict. [24:42.680 -> 24:47.960] And so, I had to constantly remind myself that him and I were mates. [24:47.960 -> 24:53.600] Him and I were sleeping in a bunk bed in a council house on multiple occasions. [24:53.600 -> 24:58.960] This kid was always underneath me and messing around and lifting up the bunk bed and literally [24:58.960 -> 25:02.760] with his feet moving the fucking thing to the left and you know, half past two in the [25:02.760 -> 25:03.840] morning shaking it. [25:03.840 -> 25:05.620] And so we had fun. [25:05.620 -> 25:09.800] And so you have to remind yourself that if I don't stay on the straight and narrow, I [25:09.800 -> 25:13.280] don't get out of this shit mess, I don't climb that ladder, I don't get good, I don't start [25:13.280 -> 25:18.120] earning my own keep, if I can't get my own property, if I can't invest in bricks and [25:18.120 -> 25:20.240] mortar that's the result. [25:20.240 -> 25:25.160] And so it's a very fresh reminder on a daily basis between your ears, get your shit together [25:25.160 -> 25:29.600] because close to you, there's an addict that's on the verge of killing himself. [25:29.600 -> 25:32.200] That's your little brother. [25:32.200 -> 25:38.000] And then I saw mom's frustration, never having a chance to own her own house. [25:38.000 -> 25:43.480] And so, I think for any woman and guy, you know, security is in bricks and mortar. [25:43.480 -> 25:46.700] And we were, we never, they never owned anything. [25:46.700 -> 25:51.180] And so, when dad was, you know, incredibly drunk, he turned the place over and then mum [25:51.180 -> 25:56.100] would be left getting superglue, putting all these vases together, her favorite bits of, [25:56.100 -> 25:58.140] you know, China. [25:58.140 -> 26:05.680] And so, at the age of 19, I bought my first flat, a tiny little one bedroom flat in Banbury. [26:05.680 -> 26:06.800] And that was my payoff. [26:06.800 -> 26:09.720] I felt then that, shit, you know, I'm proud. [26:09.720 -> 26:14.960] I've got a mortgage, I've got a flat, and I've got a mate staying in there, but I'm [26:14.960 -> 26:16.400] also progressing my career. [26:16.400 -> 26:24.400] So I was almost in this cycle to sort of better myself too quickly because of the sort of [26:24.400 -> 26:27.460] let down I felt for my father. [26:27.460 -> 26:30.660] And brilliant that you were able to take those steps forwards, which is kind of that stretch [26:30.660 -> 26:33.580] and reward thing. You were getting stretched, you were getting the rewards. [26:33.580 -> 26:34.580] Tiny rewards. [26:34.580 -> 26:35.580] Yes. [26:35.580 -> 26:41.260] It's a speckle, but it gives you hope. It gives you confidence. You're becoming more [26:41.260 -> 26:45.720] into it. And all of a sudden you're starting to calculate the benefits because [26:45.720 -> 26:48.360] you're outsmarting the shit standing behind you. [26:48.360 -> 26:51.200] And then you're sort of, you're feeling better. [26:51.200 -> 26:57.440] And even at 19, 20, 21, no matter what happened, I had more security at the age of 19 than [26:57.440 -> 26:59.320] my father ever did at 55. [26:59.320 -> 27:05.400] And while you were having these small steps forwards, you also had this, I guess, a North Star for you at the time. [27:10.320 -> 27:10.440] Marco Pierre White in the kitchen, guiding you, challenging you, probably [27:11.880 -> 27:12.200] no doubt pushing you to your limits. [27:14.200 -> 27:14.440] You've spoken so much about him over the years. Yeah. [27:14.760 -> 27:17.720] I've heard numerous times you've said, Oh, Marco, I just had, you [27:17.720 -> 27:18.840] know, it was incredible. [27:18.840 -> 27:19.640] What a, what a guy. [27:19.720 -> 27:20.000] Yeah. [27:20.480 -> 27:21.800] What was it? [27:23.120 -> 27:24.760] I think we had similar backgrounds. [27:24.960 -> 27:25.040] He lost his mom at a young age and his father, he didn't have a good relationship. What was it? I think we had similar backgrounds. [27:25.040 -> 27:28.660] He lost his mom at a young age and his father, he didn't have a good relationship. [27:28.660 -> 27:33.220] So I think you sort of, you attach yourself to similar circumstances. [27:33.220 -> 27:36.800] And then there was an air of confidence that he knew he was better than the field. [27:36.800 -> 27:41.400] He'd worked for Nico, Albert, Pierre, Raymond Blanc, and all of a sudden, you know, he was [27:41.400 -> 27:42.960] the new kid on the block. [27:42.960 -> 27:47.300] I knew after spending a couple of years with Marco that I had to come back to the fold [27:47.300 -> 27:49.060] with something different. [27:49.060 -> 27:53.220] So that's what got me into the Gavroche, under the Rue brothers. [27:53.220 -> 27:58.820] Because it was an area of sort of fine dining that I'd never been exposed to. [27:58.820 -> 27:59.820] Three star Michelin. [27:59.820 -> 28:03.700] Marco was two, and the Gavroche was three. [28:03.700 -> 28:07.620] But even before I went to the Gavroche, I knew I had to go to France because I had to come [28:07.620 -> 28:11.260] back to the fold and outsmart Marco. [28:11.260 -> 28:12.260] He never gone to France. [28:12.260 -> 28:16.520] He got stopped in his tracks and he got too big too soon. [28:16.520 -> 28:17.780] So he couldn't disappear to France. [28:17.780 -> 28:23.780] So I knew in my engine room, I had that little advantage that I'm going to fuck off to France, [28:23.780 -> 28:30.880] become French, absorb myself in one of the most amazing countries in the world, and just gather more intel and [28:30.880 -> 28:35.840] come back and outsmart everybody in London. [28:35.840 -> 28:42.120] Did you love the idea of arriving green behind the gills, inexperienced in Marco's kitchen, [28:42.120 -> 28:44.800] and then having in your head that one day I'm going to be a better chef than you? [28:44.800 -> 28:46.080] Yeah, because he wanted you to. [28:46.080 -> 28:47.080] He pushed you to the extreme. [28:47.080 -> 28:48.080] How did he do that? [28:48.080 -> 28:51.680] He drummed it in, you know, if you're going to do it, do it to your best. [28:51.680 -> 28:55.480] And if you don't want to do it to your best, get the fuck out of here. [28:55.480 -> 28:57.520] Don't waste my time and certainly don't waste yours. [28:57.520 -> 29:03.200] And I think it's a lot of life lessons early on because you're getting structured, you're [29:03.200 -> 29:09.240] getting hungry, you're getting knowledge and all of a sudden you're becoming a beast because of the monster he created and the [29:09.240 -> 29:10.400] monster you're working for. [29:10.400 -> 29:14.280] And so I see those environments all the time and I say to the individuals, stay in that [29:14.280 -> 29:17.320] environment, get what you need and get out. [29:17.320 -> 29:20.840] And when the shit hits the fan, learn to dance in the storm. [29:20.840 -> 29:25.060] It's a great place to be in because somewhere down the line, there's going to be a shit [29:25.060 -> 29:29.980] storm on your radar and you're going to stand tall in that storm and you're going to get [29:29.980 -> 29:30.980] through it. [29:30.980 -> 29:35.080] And when the storm would come to you in the kitchen, what was the best way to get out [29:35.080 -> 29:36.080] of that storm? [29:36.080 -> 29:37.080] Solution. [29:37.080 -> 29:39.740] Because I was experienced enough to handle that. [29:39.740 -> 29:47.400] And I'd know there wasn't any area in that kitchen, restaurant, bar bar wine cellar that I hadn't tackled [29:47.400 -> 29:51.600] and so that's where you go in search of and I knew my weaknesses and that's why stepping [29:51.600 -> 29:55.720] into Le Gavroche I'd never baked before but if I'm gonna have my own business I need to [29:55.720 -> 30:00.880] understand how to bake a point poilin a sourdough for catch I need to understand that but I [30:00.880 -> 30:09.560] came out of Harvey's under Marcos tenor going into the Gavroche. I was, I was, you know, posted to get on the fish and the meat, the top two sections, but [30:09.560 -> 30:13.760] no, I wanted to become a baker because it was one bit that I hadn't understood the chemistry [30:13.760 -> 30:14.760] of baking. [30:14.760 -> 30:20.920] So on that trajectory, you've got to still find those weaknesses to enhance, you know, [30:20.920 -> 30:22.980] that platform to make sure it is solid. [30:22.980 -> 30:26.600] So when that shit storm comes, you are not depending on anybody because you've got it [30:26.600 -> 30:27.600] in your itinerary. [30:27.600 -> 30:31.040] And were you getting arrogant at any point in this period and needing to be slapped down [30:31.040 -> 30:33.280] or did you remain humble? [30:33.280 -> 30:35.520] I think, I think arrogant is the wrong word. [30:35.520 -> 30:36.520] It's called confidence. [30:36.520 -> 30:37.520] Right. [30:37.520 -> 30:39.840] And that's misconstrued to those that are less talented than you. [30:39.840 -> 30:41.600] Oh, look at that arrogant twat. [30:41.600 -> 30:44.960] He doesn't like being told, no, dude, I've got my shit together. [30:44.960 -> 30:45.000] I know my shit together. [30:45.000 -> 30:46.000] I know my shit. [30:46.000 -> 30:47.000] You're a dreamer. [30:47.000 -> 30:54.000] And in this industry, like many industries, there's dreamers that want it, but haven't [30:54.000 -> 31:00.200] got it to commit, haven't got it with mindset, haven't got it with their broad shoulders [31:00.200 -> 31:01.800] and haven't got it in their attitude. [31:01.800 -> 31:06.180] So yeah, I'm going to put that down to confidence, not arrogance. [31:06.180 -> 31:07.920] There's a big difference, Jamie. [31:07.920 -> 31:08.920] So what's arrogance then? [31:08.920 -> 31:09.920] Is arrogance? [31:09.920 -> 31:14.640] Arrogance is mouthing off you can do it and not living up to the fucking potential. [31:14.640 -> 31:17.480] Can we talk then about hard work, attention to detail? [31:17.480 -> 31:20.380] Because everywhere you look, everyone tells you I work really hard, I pay great attention [31:20.380 -> 31:21.380] to detail. [31:21.380 -> 31:22.380] Yes. [31:22.380 -> 31:24.520] Take us into those early years as a chef. [31:24.520 -> 31:26.160] What did hard work actually [31:26.160 -> 31:27.160] look like? [31:27.160 -> 31:28.160] Tom Clougherty [31:28.160 -> 31:35.840] Yeah, hard work was that relentless fifth, sixth gear, standing in front of a tiny team [31:35.840 -> 31:42.080] and remaining as an example where you're focusing on their weaknesses, offloading everything [31:42.080 -> 31:46.560] you've got, and then still finding gears that the [31:46.560 -> 31:50.360] team around you never thought you'd have. [31:50.360 -> 31:56.160] Sending examples first in last out, being more personable with the staff in a way that [31:56.160 -> 32:00.520] you're showing them how good they can become but they need to commit to being good for [32:00.520 -> 32:03.240] as long a period as you can get out of them. [32:03.240 -> 32:09.040] And that takes a lot of convincing because when you're learning, it becomes so much more [32:09.040 -> 32:13.360] crucial when that teacher is inspirational. [32:13.360 -> 32:14.400] So you can't shut down. [32:14.400 -> 32:19.120] So I learned to open up early on and then there's this level of unselfishness. [32:19.120 -> 32:22.400] Chefs are precious, dainty little souls that are guarded with everything they've got. [32:22.400 -> 32:23.440] They don't want to give much. [32:23.440 -> 32:29.560] So I understood the importance of opening up and talking and showing and then when the [32:29.560 -> 32:33.160] sheer is the fan, here's why it went wrong, this is what we're going to do, dust yourself [32:33.160 -> 32:38.680] down, bounce back and that journey on the way back is so much more rewarding than sitting [32:38.680 -> 32:39.680] on top. [32:39.680 -> 32:43.680] And I said to them, the mistakes you've just made, I've made a thousand of them but never [32:43.680 -> 32:45.580] the same mistake twice. [32:45.580 -> 32:47.480] Hard work is just that. [32:47.480 -> 32:51.360] And then hard work is about beating competition. [32:51.360 -> 32:57.880] It's about being in front of the industry and in our industry, you move it or it moves [32:57.880 -> 32:58.880] you. [32:58.880 -> 33:00.600] And customers vote with their feet, Jake. [33:00.600 -> 33:02.560] No one rings you up and says, you know what, wasn't that good? [33:02.560 -> 33:03.560] I'm not coming back. [33:03.560 -> 33:04.560] They vote with their feet. [33:04.560 -> 33:05.360] So as a stern indicator, I used to coming back. They vote with their feet. [33:05.360 -> 33:09.860] So as a stern indicator, I used to look at the waiting list every day and see the waiting [33:09.860 -> 33:10.860] list. [33:10.860 -> 33:14.600] I'd make sure there's a waiting list equivalent to the entire dining room so we never dropped [33:14.600 -> 33:15.600] the ball. [33:15.600 -> 33:22.320] And it was just a message to everybody around me, look, we got 45 booked for dinner and [33:22.320 -> 33:26.000] there's fucking 45 on the waiting list. Understand the importance of making sure you've got 45 booked for dinner and there's fucking 45 on the waiting list. [33:28.640 -> 33:29.040] Understand the importance of making sure you've got a backup. [33:29.720 -> 33:29.840] Plan B. [33:31.160 -> 33:33.200] Everyone needs a plan B in life. And sometimes there's a plan C in your head, [33:33.200 -> 33:35.040] but you never want to talk about it, but you do need it. [33:35.280 -> 33:36.080] That's interesting. [33:38.960 -> 33:42.560] Today's high performance podcast is in association with AG1. [33:42.720 -> 33:49.560] And actually the last couple of weeks has been a great reminder to me about why AG1 is so important for me. Because I've been on the road, 10 [33:49.560 -> 33:53.600] different cities in eight days, four different countries. And the fact I've been living out [33:53.600 -> 33:58.280] of a suitcase, I haven't had my routine, means actually I have missed taking my AG1 in the [33:58.280 -> 34:03.320] mornings. And I've honestly noticed the difference. I've had a drop in energy. I haven't felt [34:03.320 -> 34:07.520] great. Because for me, AG1 is my daily nutritional insurance. [34:07.520 -> 34:09.980] It's good for my energy, it's great for my guts, [34:09.980 -> 34:12.000] it's full of multivitamins and minerals, [34:12.000 -> 34:13.720] pre and probiotics. [34:13.720 -> 34:16.820] It's all my key health products in just one drink. [34:16.820 -> 34:19.440] And I've got a great offer for you from AG1. [34:19.440 -> 34:20.440] If you're looking for a simple, [34:20.440 -> 34:22.380] effective investment for your health, [34:22.380 -> 34:25.040] you can get five free AG1 travel packs [34:25.040 -> 34:26.880] and a free one-year supply of vitamin D [34:26.880 -> 34:28.560] with your first purchase. [34:28.560 -> 34:32.000] Just go to drinkag1.com forward slash highperformance. [34:32.000 -> 34:36.040] That's drinkag1.com forward slash highperformance [34:36.040 -> 34:38.000] to try AG1 for yourself. [34:41.560 -> 34:43.600] These days, every new potential hire [34:43.600 -> 34:47.000] can feel like a high stakes wager for your small business. [34:47.000 -> 34:51.920] You want to be 100% certain that you have access to the best qualified candidates available. [34:51.920 -> 34:54.800] That's why you have to check out LinkedIn Jobs. [34:54.800 -> 35:00.200] LinkedIn Jobs helps find the right people for your team, faster and for free. [35:00.200 -> 35:02.640] Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com. [35:02.640 -> 35:07.760] That's LinkedIn.com slash hard work. That's LinkedIn.com slash hard work [35:07.760 -> 35:09.360] to post your job for free. [35:09.360 -> 35:10.760] Terms and conditions apply. [35:13.240 -> 35:15.400] On our podcast, we love to highlight businesses [35:15.400 -> 35:16.920] that are doing things a better way [35:16.920 -> 35:18.720] so you can live a better life. [35:18.720 -> 35:22.240] And that's why when I found Mint Mobile, I had to share. 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[36:52.480 -> 36:55.180] I want to play you a clip when you mentioned giving back and sharing. [36:55.340 -> 36:55.680] Yes. [36:56.400 -> 36:58.160] Marcus Waring has been on the podcast before. [36:58.280 -> 36:58.680] Okay. [36:59.000 -> 37:00.440] So this is when he joined us in the spot. [37:00.440 -> 37:00.640] Right. [37:00.640 -> 37:00.920] You. [37:01.520 -> 37:03.600] He just spent three and a half years with Marco white. [37:04.160 -> 37:05.520] Harvey's, [37:11.200 -> 37:16.480] the rock and roll kitchen, the kitchen that was unlike no other in anywhere in this country that they'd ever seen, anyone had ever seen before. And so he came into Gavroche with that training, [37:16.480 -> 37:20.560] that tasting, that attention to detail, that perfection on the cutting of the fish, [37:20.560 -> 37:26.040] that brilliance of putting food on the plate, taste, taste, taste. You look around the kitchen, people aren't tasting food. [37:26.040 -> 37:27.120] They'll just go through a process. [37:27.820 -> 37:29.720] And that's the one thing that was a point of difference. [37:29.720 -> 37:31.240] So that was when I was, I focused on him. [37:31.640 -> 37:34.160] I added that into my arsenal, just kept adding and adding and [37:34.160 -> 37:35.680] adding and just loved it and mimic it. [37:36.260 -> 37:39.200] Cause he was mimicking Marco, but Marco was, I never had [37:39.200 -> 37:40.160] the chance to work with Marco. [37:41.600 -> 37:42.160] Interesting. [37:42.600 -> 37:42.800] Yeah. [37:42.800 -> 37:43.800] Mimicking is a good word. [37:43.800 -> 37:51.000] I mean, I suppose I was grateful and fortunate that I was given that uniqueness from him. [37:51.000 -> 37:54.120] And that's going back to what you said earlier about the arrogance. [37:54.120 -> 37:59.280] That's why it is in many ways it looks oh my god how cocky is he. [37:59.280 -> 38:02.600] No trust me there's a price to pay for success. [38:02.600 -> 38:05.160] You can't buy it but you can be taught it. [38:05.160 -> 38:06.160] And I'm done with that bullshit. [38:06.160 -> 38:07.160] But it's got to be your DNA. [38:07.160 -> 38:09.760] You need a nono, your grandma needs to be a great chef. [38:09.760 -> 38:12.600] That is absolute fucking bullshit. [38:12.600 -> 38:15.440] Like anything successful, you can work at it. [38:15.440 -> 38:19.160] And I can prove that on multiple occasions. [38:19.160 -> 38:21.960] I have a different technique with young chefs today. [38:21.960 -> 38:27.280] I teach them how to taste first before I teach them how to cook cook because they don't understand how it tastes to perfection. They shouldn't [38:27.280 -> 38:31.920] be cooking it. So let's talk about the taste factor. Close your eyes. Tell me what that [38:31.920 -> 38:37.840] tastes of. And so then there's multiple taste tests that is called an education on the palate. [38:37.840 -> 38:46.700] And then we go to cook. So they understand what it tastes like at its absolute moment of perfection. Then we're going to [38:46.700 -> 38:51.940] cook it. And too many chefs cook first and then they start tasting. No, taste the fucking [38:51.940 -> 38:55.940] thing first, register where we're going with it and then go back. It's the opposite way [38:55.940 -> 38:56.940] around, but it works brilliantly. [38:56.940 -> 39:01.780] And I think when we, when we discuss this story of relentlessness and attention to detail [39:01.780 -> 39:06.820] and focus and drive, you started this podcast by saying high performance is actually a double edged sword. [39:06.820 -> 39:07.820] Yeah. [39:07.820 -> 39:10.420] And am I right in thinking that there was a moment where you had to, did you take time [39:10.420 -> 39:12.420] out and go and walk on a boat? [39:12.420 -> 39:13.420] Yeah. [39:13.420 -> 39:21.260] I sort of crammed this sort of six year, uh, incredible culinary uniqueness, two star, [39:21.260 -> 39:28.580] three star, three star, two star establishments. I was beaten to a pulp and I was fucked. [39:28.580 -> 39:32.300] And there's that moment in your mind, right, timeout. [39:32.300 -> 39:37.100] I was 25 years of age, didn't have a pot to piss in by the way. [39:37.100 -> 39:39.820] I had to reverse charges calling my mom, which was always embarrassing. [39:39.820 -> 39:45.440] And she was this amazing woman that, you know, worked for the social security and on the back of the [39:45.440 -> 39:53.560] way that she was abused in her marriage, she then went and worked in these incredible homes [39:53.560 -> 39:55.260] for battered women. [39:55.260 -> 40:00.280] And so she was connected to all the sort of local police stations and she worked for women's [40:00.280 -> 40:05.540] aid and there's this incredible sort of job she had mentoring these young women. [40:05.540 -> 40:08.980] And so I remember phoning her and reversing the charges. [40:08.980 -> 40:10.520] I felt so fucking bad. [40:10.520 -> 40:13.760] But I said, mom, I'm reversing the charges because I'm skint. [40:13.760 -> 40:14.760] So what are you doing? [40:14.760 -> 40:16.320] I said, I'm going to go work on a boat. [40:16.320 -> 40:17.320] What? [40:17.320 -> 40:18.320] Why are you going on a boat? [40:18.320 -> 40:20.280] I said, I just need some time out. [40:20.280 -> 40:27.300] So I got down to Monaco and there's a sort of yachty world down there and it's a beautiful [40:27.300 -> 40:30.900] thing to do provided it doesn't suck you in. [40:30.900 -> 40:33.480] And it's a little bit like the raw below deck. [40:33.480 -> 40:38.100] If you thought below deck today, you should have seen it fucking 20 years ago. [40:38.100 -> 40:39.100] It was ridiculous. [40:39.100 -> 40:44.160] And I got into this amazing boat with this wonderful owner, a private man, beautiful [40:44.160 -> 40:45.440] man called Reg Grundy. [40:45.440 -> 40:51.880] At the time he had Sailor of the Century and Neighbors as his big hits, Australian, and [40:51.880 -> 40:55.560] he was based in Bermuda and he wanted a personal chef. [40:55.560 -> 41:01.100] So it was the most glorious 12 fucking months of my entire life because what I was doing [41:01.100 -> 41:08.480] in this tiny galley, two hours a day, was a fraction of what I was doing, but all his knowledge was going back to him and he didn't want to fine dine, he [41:08.480 -> 41:10.320] just wanted really good food cooked beautifully. [41:10.320 -> 41:14.160] So we met the boat in Monaco, went down to Sardinia, Sicily, did all the south of France [41:14.160 -> 41:20.800] and then October we crossed the Atlantic and went over to Antigua and did the Caribbean. [41:20.800 -> 41:26.120] It was a tax-free salary, I had an amazing cabin, beautiful life. [41:26.120 -> 41:33.480] I was doing three tank dives a day, scuba diving, and then my batteries were charging. [41:33.480 -> 41:39.000] And it's an amazing world to be in, but there's no governing body. [41:39.000 -> 41:40.960] You can do what you want and no one's going to tell you off. [41:40.960 -> 41:47.340] And so here I was in this situation, cash positive, but it wasn't enough on this glorious yacht [41:47.340 -> 41:49.080] working for this amazing owner. [41:49.080 -> 41:52.080] I wanted then to be put to the test. [41:52.080 -> 41:54.220] I needed to be under the spotlight. [41:54.220 -> 41:56.320] And that's where I came back. [41:56.320 -> 42:00.200] And I opened my first restaurant, Aubergine, at the age of 27. [42:00.200 -> 42:02.720] And that was set up through Marco's contacts. [42:02.720 -> 42:08.200] They had these Italian partners. And I got given 25% of a restaurant. [42:08.200 -> 42:09.960] I knew jack shit about a P&L. [42:09.960 -> 42:13.840] I didn't understand how to run a business, but I could certainly cook. [42:13.840 -> 42:18.760] And so it turned out I'd been given 25% of debt because this restaurant had failed massively. [42:18.760 -> 42:20.960] And so you learn quickly. [42:20.960 -> 42:30.240] But man, this tiny little bistro at the back of beyond a full and road went from this little shithole to this two star Michelin six months fully booked an advanced [42:30.240 -> 42:33.240] restaurant that was just a little powerhouse. [42:33.240 -> 42:38.000] And then I started pissing people off the big wigs in the two and three star Michelin [42:38.000 -> 42:42.080] establishments in these hotels because this tiny little restaurant with a basement kitchen [42:42.080 -> 42:47.240] was like a fucking hell hole, half the size of this thing but nowhere near as glamorous as this. [42:47.240 -> 42:48.520] And it was powerful. [42:48.520 -> 42:50.960] We went from zero to two stars in three years. [42:50.960 -> 42:52.440] What was the secret? [42:52.440 -> 42:55.880] The secret was the lightness. [42:55.880 -> 43:01.560] I had garnered this technique of cooking haute cuisine with very little cream, very little [43:01.560 -> 43:05.080] butter but delivered something unique and nobody was doing food like that. [43:05.080 -> 43:08.000] No one was along that style. [43:08.000 -> 43:13.140] We were uniquely individual because it was, you know, using beautiful poaching methods [43:13.140 -> 43:17.720] and then grilling them after, we were aerating sauces and it was just, it was light, it was [43:17.720 -> 43:20.520] unique and it was attractive, really attractive. [43:20.520 -> 43:24.240] There's a recurring theme as well here though about following your instincts, following [43:24.240 -> 43:25.220] your gut. [43:25.220 -> 43:28.580] You know, the football doesn't work out and you go down and you enroll in technical college [43:28.580 -> 43:32.420] and you sort of follow your gut there and then you go and do various culinary jobs, [43:32.420 -> 43:35.500] meet Marco and your gut tells you there's something this guy can teach me. [43:35.500 -> 43:38.420] You knew when to take a step away and go walk on a boat. [43:38.420 -> 43:43.220] You knew when to come back to London to do this and you also very cleverly understood [43:43.220 -> 43:45.880] what people wanted on their plates at that point. [43:45.880 -> 43:49.320] And you also had to follow your gut when Aubergine ended, right? [43:49.320 -> 43:53.520] Yeah, I mean, I wanted security for myself. [43:53.520 -> 43:56.720] You know, we couldn't be any more successful with two star Michelin on the verge of getting [43:56.720 -> 43:59.600] three, but I had no ownership. [43:59.600 -> 44:04.640] And then I realized that I'm fucking done working for the people. [44:04.640 -> 44:07.600] I've got to commit and I want to work for myself. [44:07.600 -> 44:09.600] And then you risk it all again. [44:09.600 -> 44:14.240] Tana and I bought our first flat together and I had to convince her that I need the [44:14.240 -> 44:19.800] money, the equity to give the bank security because there's only a three year lease at [44:19.800 -> 44:22.720] LaTonde Claire, the restaurant we're buying for restaurant Gordon Ramsay. [44:22.720 -> 44:24.320] And the bank's told us to fuck off. [44:24.320 -> 44:25.880] There's no way we've got security on that. [44:25.880 -> 44:28.520] There's no head lease, there's no validity in this thing. [44:28.520 -> 44:29.720] So it doesn't make sense. [44:29.720 -> 44:33.000] I said, no, it will do because I've got all this knowledge, I'm going to get three stars. [44:33.000 -> 44:34.960] No, no, you're unproven. [44:34.960 -> 44:40.080] So that really got me riled to come back with an answer. [44:40.080 -> 44:41.080] Fuck it. [44:41.080 -> 44:45.560] I'm going to put everything I've got into this business and it will work. [44:45.560 -> 44:49.820] So that was the moment where I asked for patience from Tana. [44:49.820 -> 44:53.560] We just had our first baby, Megan, and it was shit or bust. [44:53.560 -> 44:55.080] And there's that moment again. [44:55.080 -> 44:56.680] But I've been there several times in my life. [44:56.680 -> 44:58.180] How did you know it works? [44:58.180 -> 45:00.520] Because I've been there several times in my life. [45:00.520 -> 45:10.000] I had bounced back from adversity as a youngster. I was faced with shit and embarrassment going to see my parents. [45:10.000 -> 45:13.320] I was protecting my mom unbeknown to my father. [45:13.320 -> 45:20.960] And so all these little caveats make this big, meaningful purpose that I knew I was [45:20.960 -> 45:22.500] going to make it. [45:22.500 -> 45:27.100] To walk away from that restaurant, to risk your flat with your wife, with your newborn [45:27.100 -> 45:28.100] child. [45:28.100 -> 45:29.100] Yeah. [45:29.100 -> 45:30.260] There's a lot on your shoulders at that point. [45:30.260 -> 45:35.340] I'm interested in where the little dissenting voice, the doubt, the imposter syndrome, the [45:35.340 -> 45:38.500] fear, what, what, what role were they playing? [45:38.500 -> 45:42.380] Success needs an underlining level of jeopardy. [45:42.380 -> 45:49.240] And there's no success anywhere in the world that hasn't got jeopardy. I strive for perfection. My life is about high performance and when I [45:49.240 -> 45:52.880] haven't got that high performance I need to up the jeopardy because that's what [45:52.880 -> 45:58.320] creates. And when I go into these situations and it's all safe and easy [45:58.320 -> 46:04.960] and a piece of cake I'll turn it upside down purposely to create a little bit [46:04.960 -> 46:06.480] more drama, a little [46:06.480 -> 46:09.160] bit more jeopardy to keep me on my toes. [46:09.160 -> 46:10.160] That's self-perpetuated. [46:10.160 -> 46:15.880] So, you'll never see that because you won't know what level I'm turning it up or dialing [46:15.880 -> 46:17.920] it in or dialing it down. [46:17.920 -> 46:21.880] You know though, there's a conscious decision like I need to put something in my life here. [46:21.880 -> 46:25.280] I want that because I don that I was never in doubt. [46:26.600 -> 46:28.120] I had five years success at Aubergine. And so Rolls-Royce was definitely going to work. [46:28.160 -> 46:29.320] I didn't take things for granted. [46:29.800 -> 46:35.240] I just wanted to prove the point because I had disgruntled backers that [46:35.240 -> 46:37.600] were screwing me at the time. [46:37.640 -> 46:42.680] I had 25% of the success that I created that was getting sort of trodden on. [46:43.080 -> 46:49.600] And I had, I had nothing to show for it. I had nothing to show for it. I had 25% of the success that I created that was getting sort of trodden on and I had nothing [46:49.600 -> 46:50.920] to show for it. [46:50.920 -> 46:55.760] So again, you turn it up, dial it in and I remember going to the bank, I think it was [46:55.760 -> 46:58.360] the bank of Scotland and I said, look, we're going to be operating Monday to Friday, just [46:58.360 -> 47:03.360] like the Tom Clare and these four guys and two women said, you're closing Saturday, Sunday, [47:03.360 -> 47:04.720] it's your busiest days. [47:04.720 -> 47:08.800] I said, no, fuck off. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, going to be my busiest days. [47:08.800 -> 47:12.640] I know, but there's no restaurant that will ever succeed unless it's open for Saturday [47:12.640 -> 47:13.640] and Sunday lunch. [47:13.640 -> 47:15.920] I'm like, Sunday fucking lunch, who's cooking Sunday lunch? [47:15.920 -> 47:17.440] I'm going to be off. [47:17.440 -> 47:20.600] So that's why they literally ignored the business plan. [47:20.600 -> 47:21.600] Didn't want to invest in it. [47:21.600 -> 47:25.580] Didn't want to give me, I think it was only asking for like half a million pounds. [47:25.580 -> 47:30.020] I'd saved something like 350,000 pounds, which doesn't seem a lot, but back then it was fucking [47:30.020 -> 47:31.280] huge. [47:31.280 -> 47:36.420] But Pierre Kaufman, this amazing Frenchman, he let me pay half the money on year one and [47:36.420 -> 47:38.460] the second half of the money year two out of cash flow. [47:38.460 -> 47:42.300] One of the most generous strokes I've ever seen by a Frenchman. [47:42.300 -> 47:43.500] And so I never forget that moment. [47:43.500 -> 47:46.120] No, because they're tight bastards and they are tough. [47:46.120 -> 47:49.120] But there's that mentorship thing again, that someone's stepping up for you. [47:49.120 -> 47:50.120] Incredible. [47:50.120 -> 47:51.560] And had he not done that, I would have been fucked. [47:51.560 -> 47:52.600] I'd never have made it. [47:52.600 -> 47:56.520] So there was the double-edged sword of, you know, paying him back and not him getting [47:56.520 -> 47:57.680] access to the lease again. [47:57.680 -> 47:59.280] And so there was so much jeopardy. [47:59.280 -> 48:03.480] I'll go back to the point about I enjoyed the jeopardy because I needed that level of [48:03.480 -> 48:04.480] shit. [48:04.480 -> 48:05.160] It's got to work. So that propels you even more with the velocity the jeopardy because I needed that level of shit. [48:05.160 -> 48:06.160] It's got to work. [48:06.160 -> 48:08.960] So that propels you even more with the velocity of jeopardy. [48:08.960 -> 48:13.520] And it's really important in our lives to keep that jeopardy because it really does [48:13.520 -> 48:19.360] make you perform automatically and very few businesses understand the word jeopardy. [48:19.360 -> 48:20.360] Is that why TV was attractive? [48:20.360 -> 48:21.360] Because it was another challenge? [48:21.360 -> 48:23.720] Oh, fucking hell, hold on a minute. [48:23.720 -> 48:27.240] TV for me back then, it was boiling point. That was not TV. [48:27.240 -> 48:33.880] That was brutal. That was a documentary, you know, following the pursuit of trying to stand [48:33.880 -> 48:34.880] on your two feet. [48:34.880 -> 48:36.840] By the way, I decided to watch that before this. [48:36.840 -> 48:39.280] Shit no, Jake, Jesus Christ, you've got too much time on your hands. [48:39.280 -> 48:44.160] Was it anywhere you didn't let the cameras go? I mean, that was proper reality TV. [48:44.160 -> 48:49.000] I mean, I got, I mean, it was ironic because amazing lady called Pat Llewellyn, who founded, [48:49.000 -> 48:52.260] you know, the Naked Chef and Two Fat Ladies and Kitchen Nightmares. [48:52.260 -> 48:56.080] She said, look, you know, what do you want me to do with you? [48:56.080 -> 48:58.080] There's Boiling Point and there's the Naked Chef. [48:58.080 -> 49:02.100] You got this Essex kid sliding down a fucking banister, lovely jubbly, throw it in the tray [49:02.100 -> 49:06.000] and fuck off for a game of golf, come back and stuff your face. [49:06.000 -> 49:11.200] And you got you running around like a fucking idiot with your head cut off, screaming at [49:11.200 -> 49:12.200] everybody. [49:12.200 -> 49:14.560] I said, yeah, but I'm searching for three stars. [49:14.560 -> 49:17.880] So you need to stick to what you're good at. [49:17.880 -> 49:19.600] And that's perfection. [49:19.600 -> 49:24.240] And so it was interesting because I was so naive. [49:24.240 -> 49:26.480] I had no idea what that fucking microphone [49:26.480 -> 49:28.440] meant because I forgot the cameras. [49:28.440 -> 49:30.520] And people say, why do you get so upset? [49:30.520 -> 49:32.600] Because that's the same. [49:32.600 -> 49:34.080] We're on or off camera. [49:34.080 -> 49:35.080] That's me. [49:35.080 -> 49:36.080] I'm not going to play up for the sake of it. [49:36.080 -> 49:37.280] I'm passionate about what I do. [49:37.280 -> 49:40.760] Did you need that to get the three stars? [49:40.760 -> 49:43.920] Or if you did sit and watch it back now, would you be going, I didn't need to act like that [49:43.920 -> 49:45.840] to be successful? Steve McQueen [49:45.840 -> 49:51.120] ITV called me in to a viewing a week before Boiling Point was going out. [49:51.120 -> 49:55.840] And it was on channel 4 then, ITV's studio was making it for channel 4. [49:55.840 -> 49:59.320] And I sat in this, it was like a little fucking mini cinema. [49:59.320 -> 50:03.800] There was like teas, coffees, biscuits, I had a packet of fig rather, shit, this is [50:03.800 -> 50:04.800] amazing. [50:04.800 -> 50:08.920] And then I turned around, I'm in the room on my own, there's a booth with a glass wall [50:08.920 -> 50:11.000] and I could see a couple of execs back there. [50:11.000 -> 50:16.160] So I fucking sat back in this chair, fucking screen opened up and then fucking the opening [50:16.160 -> 50:22.480] credits went, I went, oh my God, that's enough, thank you very much indeed, I'm out of here. [50:22.480 -> 50:33.360] And I, yeah, I think I shat an egg roll. I literally shat my pants. I couldn't quite believe just how raw that thing was. [50:33.360 -> 50:39.840] And I was naive, I was you know, half stupid, but I was in pursuit of something I'd strived [50:39.840 -> 50:45.320] for. And there was nothing that was getting in my way. Because everything was depending on it. [50:45.320 -> 50:50.880] We're in temporary lodgings, we had a tiny little studio. [50:50.880 -> 50:54.120] Tana had stopped working then because of Megan, we couldn't afford any home help. [50:54.120 -> 51:00.440] And so every dish I was sending, I was focusing on that jeopardy. [51:00.440 -> 51:06.580] Again it's the jeopardy that keeps me buoyant to creating a high performance mechanism. [51:06.580 -> 51:10.340] Some may say that's a little bit too far, but I didn't know any different. [51:10.340 -> 51:18.200] I'm not blaming anybody because that was all my own self doing, but boiling point, Jesus [51:18.200 -> 51:19.200] Christ. [51:19.200 -> 51:20.200] What a moment. [51:20.200 -> 51:24.240] And it led to what is now an outstanding media career. [51:24.240 -> 51:26.560] With my background, I find it particularly interesting. [51:26.560 -> 51:30.560] I remember you bursting on the scene and as you say, not just very different to Jamie Oliver, [51:30.560 -> 51:36.800] right? You were different to everybody. And I wonder, as it started to go and producers [51:36.800 -> 51:40.800] started talking to you about formats and personalities and having an impact, like how, [51:40.800 -> 51:44.480] how much did you think about your TV persona? Or- [51:44.480 -> 51:45.520] Jason Valee I didn't. Jason Valee Not at all. Jason Valee I your TV persona or? I didn't. [51:45.520 -> 51:46.520] Not at all. [51:46.520 -> 51:47.520] I didn't give a shit. [51:47.520 -> 51:51.560] So even when you were going on chat shows and like saying outrageous stuff or dropping [51:51.560 -> 51:56.080] in the odd swear word, that wasn't, you weren't thinking how can I have the most impact in [51:56.080 -> 51:57.960] this next 10 minutes on this chat show? [51:57.960 -> 52:00.240] I never had those preconceived ideas, Jake. [52:00.240 -> 52:08.000] You don't go in there with that. My first breakthrough was Kitchen Nightmares. [52:08.000 -> 52:13.440] And I'd go into these restaurants and they'd let me off the lead at the front of the door [52:13.440 -> 52:15.080] like a fucking sniffer dog. [52:15.080 -> 52:19.240] I'd go in there and there's the cameraman, a sound and a producer. [52:19.240 -> 52:20.840] I turned that place upside down. [52:20.840 -> 52:23.120] I took those things incredibly personal. [52:23.120 -> 52:27.200] And so we'd spend 10 days in this business, turning the chef around, redecorating the [52:27.200 -> 52:28.200] place, launching it. [52:28.200 -> 52:30.280] And then I'll go back a fucking month later. [52:30.280 -> 52:31.280] This is for somebody else's business. [52:31.280 -> 52:32.280] That's the point. [52:32.280 -> 52:36.120] I'm like, cause I can understand why you care about your, but why did you care about their [52:36.120 -> 52:37.120] business? [52:37.120 -> 52:38.120] But because it wasn't a format for me. [52:38.120 -> 52:40.920] It wasn't about IP or format or success. [52:40.920 -> 52:47.320] Remember the first program is 5.8 million viewers million viewers, channel four, fucking kitchen nightmares. [52:47.320 -> 52:50.560] And so then all the intrusion started. [52:50.560 -> 52:53.440] Then everyone wanted to know who you were, what was your background, what makes this [52:53.440 -> 52:54.440] guy tick? [52:54.440 -> 52:59.920] I'm like, I'm the same on or off that there's no, and I always say there's this celebrity [52:59.920 -> 53:03.280] chef moment that we're not, and we're a real chef that works on TV. [53:03.280 -> 53:06.480] And so these restaurants then get put back on the map. [53:06.480 -> 53:09.780] They go out, viewers flock to them. [53:09.780 -> 53:15.320] These restaurants get so successful, but then when they don't work, you get blamed. [53:15.320 -> 53:19.260] When the Meg's successful, you don't get any thanks. [53:19.260 -> 53:23.760] And so yeah, Kitchen Nightmares was an important one for me because I think you got to see [53:23.760 -> 53:28.640] the sort of nuts and bolts of the industry on how stupid some of these owners are. [53:28.640 -> 53:29.920] And I just called it out. [53:29.920 -> 53:31.440] I literally called it out. [53:31.440 -> 53:35.600] But yeah, and so that's me, by the way. [53:35.600 -> 53:40.160] But then I think back to the bollockings I got with Marco, or Albert, Guy Savoy, Joe [53:40.160 -> 53:41.160] Robuchon. [53:41.160 -> 53:42.160] They taught me well. [53:42.160 -> 53:44.020] They taught me really well. [53:44.020 -> 53:48.760] And loads of chefs have done the TV thing. No chef has done it to the level and the sustained [53:48.760 -> 53:53.360] level that you have. Does that also come back to the competitive nature as well? [53:53.360 -> 53:59.560] God, it's a tough one, isn't it? You know, that's a really good question. It's a tough [53:59.560 -> 54:07.160] one to, yeah. And we've just finished season 22 of Hell's Kitchen. And it's airing next week. [54:07.160 -> 54:09.760] And you can't do it for that long without loving it. [54:09.760 -> 54:10.760] And you loved cooking. [54:10.760 -> 54:15.480] I suppose what I'm trying to say, I run a restaurant, Fox run a show. [54:15.480 -> 54:18.360] And so you're still the chef. [54:18.360 -> 54:20.520] Fucking right I am, because I don't do that on a daily basis. [54:20.520 -> 54:24.760] So when I get a chance to do it and run a restaurant, I love it because it's me, it's [54:24.760 -> 54:29.120] live, the curtains are up and there's real bookings, there's individuals cooking. [54:29.120 -> 54:34.160] And if the lamb is raw, it's fucking raw, but they're on this show for a quarter million [54:34.160 -> 54:35.920] dollars to lift their career. [54:35.920 -> 54:39.960] But if you've been cooking for 10 years, you can't fucking cook a rack of lamb. [54:39.960 -> 54:41.900] What the fuck are you doing in here? [54:41.900 -> 54:45.540] How do you deserve a quarter of a million dollars when you're not fit for purpose? [54:45.540 -> 54:49.140] And so I can't then turn around and say, oh shit, the camera's watching. [54:49.140 -> 54:50.380] Oh, can you hear me? [54:50.380 -> 54:51.720] I'm going to give it to them. [54:51.720 -> 54:53.340] I'm going to absolutely let rip. [54:53.340 -> 54:55.920] And maybe that's just the way I am. [54:55.920 -> 54:56.960] That's the way I'm taught. [54:56.960 -> 54:59.360] So I don't want to go in there. [54:59.360 -> 55:01.380] Would you be so kind to pass me the raw lamb? [55:01.380 -> 55:02.840] I'll serve it to the fucking dog for dinner. [55:02.840 -> 55:05.520] I just, no, you muppetet get your shit together or fuck off. [55:06.120 -> 55:08.640] And coming back to the double edged sword, the TV career goes amazing. [55:09.160 -> 55:09.960] Things are flying. [55:09.960 -> 55:12.960] You've popped in the States, which as we all know, every broadcaster in the UK [55:12.960 -> 55:14.480] would love to do and very few manage it. [55:15.120 -> 55:18.400] But then at the same time, there's some of the reviews are tricky. [55:18.480 -> 55:21.880] It hardens that had some of your restaurants in the most disappointing [55:22.080 -> 55:23.440] country experiences. [55:23.440 -> 55:29.480] There was huge profit drop loss of a star at Claridge's. [55:30.440 -> 55:33.080] I'm very interested in how Gordon Ramsay dealt with that. [55:33.720 -> 55:38.160] I don't think it's any different to a critic critiquing Man City winning the [55:38.160 -> 55:40.800] treble or Man United finishing fourth. [55:41.520 -> 55:42.520] You've got to put up with that shit. [55:42.720 -> 55:43.000] Yeah. [55:43.280 -> 55:47.480] What you do need to learn in life, uh, anyone in high performance is that you're judged [55:47.480 -> 55:50.800] by individuals that know less about food than you do. [55:50.800 -> 55:53.040] And so it's the nature of the beast. [55:53.040 -> 55:55.300] Because I don't give a fuck. [55:55.300 -> 55:56.480] Never have done, never will do. [55:56.480 -> 56:01.240] But when it starts getting personal, and they're launching these guys on the back of your name [56:01.240 -> 56:05.480] because they want to nominate the most disappointing meal. [56:05.480 -> 56:07.320] That's easy mud throwing. [56:07.320 -> 56:11.400] Had you taken your eye off the ball do you think or was it just. [56:11.400 -> 56:12.400] No. [56:12.400 -> 56:14.120] You were there to be shut down maybe. [56:14.120 -> 56:15.120] Do you buy the Hartle's guide? [56:15.120 -> 56:16.120] No. [56:16.120 -> 56:17.120] Is it still printed now? [56:17.120 -> 56:18.120] I wouldn't know, I've never looked at it. [56:18.120 -> 56:19.120] Nor would I. [56:19.120 -> 56:20.120] Makes two of us. [56:20.120 -> 56:21.760] But this mission star would have had. [56:21.760 -> 56:25.840] We're talking about a completely different caliber of recognition here. [56:25.840 -> 56:32.600] A global iconic guy that visits these restaurants incognito. [56:32.600 -> 56:35.920] So Jake, I sleep at night with both eyes closed. [56:35.920 -> 56:37.640] Don't you fucking worry about that. [56:37.640 -> 56:44.280] And 23 years at three Michelin stars, trust me, I'm a happy boy. [56:44.280 -> 56:45.080] Good. [56:45.080 -> 56:46.880] Let's talk about happiness then. [56:46.880 -> 56:47.880] Yes. [56:47.880 -> 56:51.200] Where does family fit in to that happiness for you? [56:51.200 -> 56:52.920] The balance. [56:52.920 -> 56:58.280] This industry is an absolute bitch if you don't control it. [56:58.280 -> 57:10.640] Because it's lost too many good chefs to depression, suicide. It's lost too many phenomenal individuals because they've been sucked in and beaten [57:10.640 -> 57:11.640] by the industry. [57:11.640 -> 57:12.640] They can't let go. [57:12.640 -> 57:18.760] The minute I won my third Michelin star, I learned to delegate. [57:18.760 -> 57:30.980] I learned to offload and I learned to become unselfish and get those individuals to share the success that we were building to create thoroughbreds, a breeding stable, a Manchester United of [57:30.980 -> 57:36.340] kitchens that can go on and win and lose on a weekly basis, but still be renowned as one [57:36.340 -> 57:37.340] of the best in the world. [57:37.340 -> 57:41.320] And as we sit here today, what do you still feel you have to achieve? [57:41.320 -> 57:42.740] That's a tough one. [57:42.740 -> 57:47.480] Anything that I've strived for from a culinary perspective, there's one [57:47.480 -> 57:56.160] little clink in the armor. I won two stars in France in Bordeaux, a Russian called Ramsey [57:56.160 -> 58:11.240] at the Présent Argent. And I love the French, I love the sort of glamour of Haute Cuisine. And I think that would really sort of confirm that final notch on my sort of deathbed. [58:11.240 -> 58:14.480] The fact that we won three stars in France and we're one star away from that. [58:14.480 -> 58:16.080] So if it happens, brilliant. [58:16.080 -> 58:18.480] If it doesn't, so what. [58:18.480 -> 58:27.560] But that would be the final, the final swan song, because growing up on a council estate, living in 15 different shitty [58:27.560 -> 58:35.100] homes and being taught how to cook, to go back to France, the sort of the birthplace [58:35.100 -> 58:39.600] of haute cuisine and win three stars, but I'm so fucking close. [58:39.600 -> 58:41.120] You have no idea. [58:41.120 -> 58:44.040] And yeah, that's the one little clink. [58:44.040 -> 58:46.020] Yeah, so we're not done yet. [58:46.020 -> 58:51.360] I think that is really interesting to talk about the fact that you're chasing a star. [58:51.360 -> 58:52.360] How old are you now? [58:52.360 -> 58:53.360] 84. [58:53.360 -> 58:54.360] How old do you feel? [58:54.360 -> 58:55.360] I don't feel 84, 56. [58:55.360 -> 58:56.360] And how old are you? [58:56.360 -> 59:05.600] When you say chasing, it's a sort of, it's the confirmation how good that is. [59:05.600 -> 59:07.200] We are so close. [59:07.200 -> 59:08.200] We are so close. [59:08.200 -> 59:11.560] So yeah, 56. [59:11.560 -> 59:17.920] Going back to the importance of the delegation and not getting sucked into it, you know, [59:17.920 -> 59:22.920] when you're in the orchestra, you're focusing on those fine tunes and that, that high octane [59:22.920 -> 59:29.080] perfection when you're conducting, you've got 55 of you in the orchestra, and that's [59:29.080 -> 59:30.860] exactly the same with the position we're in now. [59:31.280 -> 59:35.440] So coming from playing to conducting, it's a very difficult transition, [59:36.160 -> 59:37.400] really difficult transition. [59:37.840 -> 59:41.880] Um, and that's what we're, we're, we're sort of harmonizing, you know, on a [59:41.880 -> 59:43.760] daily basis in a beautiful way, by the way. [59:44.360 -> 59:46.600] And how old were you when you won your first star? [59:46.600 -> 59:47.600] Uh, 28, 27. [59:47.600 -> 59:50.520] So 20 years since your first star. [59:50.520 -> 59:51.520] Yeah. [59:51.520 -> 59:53.080] You're close to getting another one. [59:53.080 -> 59:56.160] The one that, you know, as you say, would give that ultimate confirmation. [59:56.160 -> 59:57.160] Yes. [59:57.160 -> 59:58.660] This is the power of consistency. [59:58.660 -> 01:00:00.740] This is the joy of longevity. [01:00:00.740 -> 01:00:04.600] This is the thing that so few people manage. [01:00:04.600 -> 01:00:06.560] What do you think the secret is? [01:00:06.560 -> 01:00:07.760] Tom Clougherty [01:00:07.760 -> 01:00:11.840] I'm brutal honesty with the team. [01:00:11.840 -> 01:00:18.480] We don't sit on laurels and we stay in front of the competition. [01:00:18.480 -> 01:00:23.240] Restaurant Gordon Ramsay today celebrates 25 years. [01:00:23.240 -> 01:00:26.240] Restaurants have a shelf life, 72% of them closed in the first three [01:00:26.240 -> 01:00:34.100] years. We're 24 years next year, three star Michelin. So far so good because of the systems [01:00:34.100 -> 01:00:42.520] in place and there's not one plate, one diner, one member of the team ever taken for granted. [01:00:42.520 -> 01:00:46.080] Stay close to the action. That's what we do. [01:00:46.080 -> 01:00:49.360] And stay close to the people that are most important to you. [01:00:49.360 -> 01:00:54.600] I think before we wrap this up, I've read and watched and listened to a lot of stuff [01:00:54.600 -> 01:00:59.040] and I just want to talk about Tana for a moment. [01:00:59.040 -> 01:01:05.920] There right when you were at the center, the epicenter of your seriously busy life. [01:01:05.920 -> 01:01:06.920] Still there today. [01:01:06.920 -> 01:01:12.400] I know you went through a personal trauma losing a child a few years ago. [01:01:12.400 -> 01:01:18.000] I'd love you just to tell us the secret to a long-term marriage which has its highs and [01:01:18.000 -> 01:01:19.000] its lows. [01:01:19.000 -> 01:01:20.000] Yeah. [01:01:20.000 -> 01:01:25.760] The amount of time you don't see is hard. [01:01:25.760 -> 01:01:29.400] And so we worked out very early on in life that the time we're going to have is make [01:01:29.400 -> 01:01:30.400] equality. [01:01:30.400 -> 01:01:35.600] So I committed to those two days off Saturday, Sunday, and she knew I was exhausted and shattered, [01:01:35.600 -> 01:01:38.400] but you need to work in harmony. [01:01:38.400 -> 01:01:42.280] You need to get that level of support, you need to be on the same page. [01:01:42.280 -> 01:01:46.920] So the secret of that relationship is communication. [01:01:46.920 -> 01:01:54.120] And then dealing with the trauma of losing an amazing tiny little baby and just watching [01:01:54.120 -> 01:02:13.400] that devastation unfold and everything happening live and you're there, you value each other. We started off as best mates and we were young, we were stupid, and we were skint. [01:02:13.400 -> 01:02:19.840] I remember going to ask her father if I could borrow 20 grand for the deposit for a flat [01:02:19.840 -> 01:02:22.080] that we fell in love with. [01:02:22.080 -> 01:02:30.720] And I thought this is all going well, lunch is good, I'll pay for lunch and I said, oh by the way, Chris, you know about that deposit, you know, Tan and I, we've [01:02:30.720 -> 01:02:35.720] got half of it, we need the other 20 grand, I'll pay you back in a year. [01:02:35.720 -> 01:02:47.720] He said, okay, yeah, here's what I'll do, I'll have another lunch with you when you sell your Porsche. [01:02:47.720 -> 01:02:56.180] I thought you fucker but you clever fucker. Here I am driving around in a [01:02:56.180 -> 01:03:02.080] flash fucking 911. 911 turbo conversion and Tyler and I loved the car and we didn't [01:03:02.080 -> 01:03:05.680] even have a fucking house. Didn't have a, we didn't have a roof over our heads. [01:03:05.680 -> 01:03:08.360] It was the best advice he ever gave me. [01:03:08.360 -> 01:03:10.440] Sell your fucking Porsche. [01:03:10.440 -> 01:03:12.760] I did sell it. [01:03:12.760 -> 01:03:15.560] And 10 years later, I went and bought it back. [01:03:15.560 -> 01:03:16.760] Same car? [01:03:16.760 -> 01:03:17.760] Same fucking car. [01:03:17.760 -> 01:03:18.760] Yes. [01:03:18.760 -> 01:03:19.760] How did that feel? [01:03:19.760 -> 01:03:22.080] It felt amazing. [01:03:22.080 -> 01:03:26.380] I get embarrassed with the toys because I used to be embarrassed with my father dropping [01:03:26.380 -> 01:03:29.300] us off at school with his Vauxhall Viva. [01:03:29.300 -> 01:03:31.580] There's more fucking rust on the inside than there was on the outside. [01:03:31.580 -> 01:03:34.900] And so you start getting into sort of 10, 11, 12 years of age. [01:03:34.900 -> 01:03:39.500] And because three of us were in the same school, we'd asked to be dropped off way before because [01:03:39.500 -> 01:03:42.740] this beaten up fucking car was barely working. [01:03:42.740 -> 01:03:45.280] So we'd constantly go to car auctions and buy all shit cars and start at most from there, So I get embarrassed with what I've invested in now as a collection of amazing supercars. [01:03:45.280 -> 01:03:49.800] But it's amazing when you can't stop thinking about the sort of the beginning of this journey [01:03:49.800 -> 01:03:53.880] and then you sort of, you don't want to indulge, but you want to enjoy the sort of fruits of [01:03:53.880 -> 01:03:54.880] your labor. [01:03:54.880 -> 01:03:57.800] And before I quit for questions, that's actually where I'm going to end. [01:03:57.800 -> 01:03:58.800] I'm going to end the show. [01:03:58.800 -> 01:03:59.800] I'm going to end the show. [01:03:59.800 -> 01:04:00.800] I'm going to end the show. [01:04:00.800 -> 01:04:01.800] I'm going to end the show. [01:04:01.800 -> 01:04:02.800] I'm going to end the show. [01:04:02.800 -> 01:04:03.800] I'm going to end the show. [01:04:03.800 -> 01:04:04.800] I'm going to end the show. [01:04:04.800 -> 01:04:06.560] I'm going to end the show. I'm going to end the show. I'm going to end the show. you don't want to indulge, but you want to enjoy the sort of fruits of [01:04:06.560 -> 01:04:07.560] your labor. [01:04:07.560 -> 01:04:11.840] And before I quit my questions, that's actually where I, where I want to end, you know, having [01:04:11.840 -> 01:04:16.960] those cars is a real clear message for people who are maybe listening to this and maybe [01:04:16.960 -> 01:04:21.520] they are in the same place that Gordon Ramsay was when he was 12, 13 years of age. [01:04:21.520 -> 01:04:26.080] What would your message be to those young people that feel that life [01:04:26.080 -> 01:04:29.000] has dealt the cards in such a way that they're never going to be sitting in the chair that [01:04:29.000 -> 01:04:30.000] you're sitting in right now? [01:04:30.000 -> 01:04:34.560] Yeah, you've got every chance of success. [01:04:34.560 -> 01:04:37.680] It's never around money. [01:04:37.680 -> 01:04:46.000] There's a level of success you can get just by getting out of a tiny situation you're in. [01:04:46.000 -> 01:04:51.880] And then you climb that ladder one week, one month, one year at a time. [01:04:51.880 -> 01:04:56.120] And you pat yourself down that you've done well. [01:04:56.120 -> 01:04:59.500] Don't look for other people to do that for you. [01:04:59.500 -> 01:05:06.760] And so there is a strong chance to do well. [01:05:06.760 -> 01:05:14.180] It depends on you and it's finding gears that you never felt you had in your wheelhouse [01:05:14.180 -> 01:05:19.580] and self motivation is critical. [01:05:19.580 -> 01:05:24.200] And somewhere down the line, we're all going to get dealt a dysfunctional card in life [01:05:24.200 -> 01:05:27.200] just by situations. [01:05:27.200 -> 01:05:32.560] And the earlier you get dealt a dysfunctional card in life, the fucking better because it [01:05:32.560 -> 01:05:36.200] gives you a much stronger hand when you come to play it. [01:05:36.200 -> 01:05:37.200] Beautiful. [01:05:37.200 -> 01:05:38.200] Quick fire questions, Gordon. [01:05:38.200 -> 01:05:39.200] Please. [01:05:39.200 -> 01:05:44.120] So let's start with your three non-negotiables that you and the people around you must buy [01:05:44.120 -> 01:05:45.280] into. Three non-negotiables that you and the people around you must buy into? [01:05:45.280 -> 01:05:47.680] Three non-negotiable behaviors. [01:05:47.680 -> 01:05:51.920] First one is you need to be a sponge. [01:05:51.920 -> 01:05:57.600] The best listening device is you, sponge. [01:05:57.600 -> 01:06:01.800] The second one is take it professionally, not personally. [01:06:01.800 -> 01:06:08.120] I can't stress how important that is. Getting told off is fucking good. [01:06:08.120 -> 01:06:09.240] Really healthy. [01:06:09.240 -> 01:06:11.140] But take it professionally. [01:06:11.140 -> 01:06:13.360] Don't take it personally. [01:06:13.360 -> 01:06:19.200] And the third one is thick skin. [01:06:19.200 -> 01:06:21.320] You're never going to please everyone. [01:06:21.320 -> 01:06:24.280] Stop worrying about keeping everybody happy in the room. [01:06:24.280 -> 01:06:25.680] Fuck it. It doesn't exist. [01:06:25.680 -> 01:06:26.680] Remember that. [01:06:26.680 -> 01:06:30.920] Your advice to a young Gordon just starting out? [01:06:30.920 -> 01:06:33.960] Stay hungry and stay fit. [01:06:33.960 -> 01:06:37.680] If you go back to one moment in your life, where would you go and why? [01:06:37.680 -> 01:06:43.840] If I had one moment to go back in life and why, God, it's a tough fucking question. [01:06:43.840 -> 01:06:46.000] Fucking hell, Jake. [01:06:46.000 -> 01:06:48.000] One moment. I've got 25. [01:06:48.000 -> 01:06:50.000] How long have we got? [01:06:50.000 -> 01:06:52.000] One moment. [01:06:52.000 -> 01:06:54.000] It would be [01:06:54.000 -> 01:06:56.000] never employ [01:06:56.000 -> 01:06:58.000] family. [01:06:58.000 -> 01:07:00.000] We haven't even touched on that subject, have we? [01:07:00.000 -> 01:07:02.000] Don't need to. [01:07:02.000 -> 01:07:04.000] The press did that for us briefly. [01:07:04.000 -> 01:07:11.600] And I mean that. I can say that open honestly because we have five kids and I never want [01:07:11.600 -> 01:07:14.680] to put the onus on my team. [01:07:14.680 -> 01:07:16.400] Oh it's fucking Ramsey's daughter. [01:07:16.400 -> 01:07:18.460] Oh it's Ramsey's son. [01:07:18.460 -> 01:07:26.960] Five amazing kids and what I learned back from 2010 was know, don't mix family and business. [01:07:26.960 -> 01:07:29.460] Stay independent. [01:07:29.460 -> 01:07:32.300] Look after the family, but don't mix it. [01:07:32.300 -> 01:07:41.540] I saw Meg go to work this morning and she took a degree from Oxford Brookes and she's [01:07:41.540 -> 01:07:46.480] now in the Met Police and she's putting a stab vest on. [01:07:46.480 -> 01:07:51.120] And you think, God, you know, everything I've done and created, it's too easy to say, hey [01:07:51.120 -> 01:07:52.720] Meg, go and run one of daddy's restaurant. [01:07:52.720 -> 01:07:54.920] There's no fucking way she wants anything to do. [01:07:54.920 -> 01:07:55.920] She loves the restaurant. [01:07:55.920 -> 01:08:00.000] She's a great chef, but she's now a police officer. [01:08:00.000 -> 01:08:07.140] And that gives me such amount of happiness to see that individuality. [01:08:07.140 -> 01:08:15.060] Jack is a Royal Marine Commando and training and just where he is now, four years into [01:08:15.060 -> 01:08:16.660] the Marines. [01:08:16.660 -> 01:08:21.580] Holly into the fashion and Tilly into her university, her final year. [01:08:21.580 -> 01:08:25.040] We're going to have two of the kids that have got degree, [01:08:25.040 -> 01:08:28.560] we didn't get A-levels, we didn't get, university wasn't even on our agenda. [01:08:28.560 -> 01:08:34.360] So you have to understand how hard it is for those kids because it's too easy just to fall [01:08:34.360 -> 01:08:38.960] onto your parents radar and pick them up and stick them in a restaurant because they can't [01:08:38.960 -> 01:08:39.960] be fucking bothered. [01:08:39.960 -> 01:08:47.860] No, and that's the strength of Tana and I communicating together and feeding off each other's strengths [01:08:47.860 -> 01:08:49.360] and supporting our weaknesses. [01:08:49.360 -> 01:08:50.360] Love that. [01:08:50.360 -> 01:08:54.320] And the final question, your one final message really to the people that have listened to [01:08:54.320 -> 01:08:58.240] this fascinating conversation and thank you for sharing so much with us. [01:08:58.240 -> 01:09:12.200] Your one golden rule if you like to living a high performance life? My one golden rule to living a high performance life is never fear a storm, learn to dance [01:09:12.200 -> 01:09:18.340] in the rain. It's got me through so much shit in my life. I'm so happy when people tell [01:09:18.340 -> 01:09:32.080] me, be careful. It's stormy out there. I fucking love it. Damien, Jay, well you weren't there for the recording with Gordon Ramsay. What did you [01:09:32.080 -> 01:09:33.080] make of it? [01:09:33.080 -> 01:09:38.080] Loved it. It was like a classic high performance episode to me. I love the stories about the [01:09:38.080 -> 01:09:45.240] hard work, the origins coming from quite humble backgrounds, the willingness to take great leaps, you [01:09:45.240 -> 01:09:49.600] know, with his story about working with Marco Pierre White, I found intriguing and [01:09:49.600 -> 01:09:54.880] what really shone out for me was how passionate he is about his craft. This is [01:09:54.880 -> 01:10:00.720] a man that's constantly revising, reflecting and enhancing what he can do [01:10:00.720 -> 01:10:06.300] in the kitchen. I loved his constant search for challenge. I love the fact that he looks for the challenge, [01:10:06.300 -> 01:10:09.600] that he's then inspired by the adversity that comes with the challenge, [01:10:09.600 -> 01:10:11.000] and that he takes energy from that. [01:10:11.000 -> 01:10:14.700] It's almost like if he's not being backed into a corner by someone else, [01:10:14.700 -> 01:10:16.600] he'll back himself into the corner, [01:10:16.600 -> 01:10:21.000] and out will come that fiery, fighting, ultra-confident Gordon [01:10:21.000 -> 01:10:24.600] that's keen to show people wrong and prove that he's right. [01:10:24.600 -> 01:10:25.500] And I also [01:10:25.500 -> 01:10:30.960] like love the optimism. Everything he did was filled with optimism. And that is great [01:10:30.960 -> 01:10:35.080] when you've come from such a negative upbringing. And I think if there's one thing that I'd [01:10:35.080 -> 01:10:39.640] love people to learn from it is the power of just being optimistic and it allows you [01:10:39.640 -> 01:10:40.960] to take the challenge and take the risk. [01:10:40.960 -> 01:10:49.200] But didn't you also say to me when we were chatting about it afterwards that it was the purposefulness of him, that everything he did had to be laser [01:10:49.200 -> 01:10:53.480] focused. Yeah, I really like that. It just means that he never floats, he's never kind [01:10:53.480 -> 01:10:57.320] of just floating through, you know, when we spoke about what you're up to, what have you [01:10:57.320 -> 01:11:01.060] been doing, it was like, I was here because I was here, and then I went to this country [01:11:01.060 -> 01:11:04.040] for this, and tomorrow I'm flying to this country to do this, and then I've got this [01:11:04.040 -> 01:11:05.080] project. [01:11:05.080 -> 01:11:07.120] Everything was really intentional with him. [01:11:07.120 -> 01:11:10.000] Laser focused on what he was doing. [01:11:10.000 -> 01:11:12.000] Total understanding of why he's doing it. [01:11:12.000 -> 01:11:15.360] And then I think that allows him to know what he wants to get out of it. [01:11:15.360 -> 01:11:16.360] I left inspired. [01:11:16.360 -> 01:11:17.360] Yeah, I could tell. [01:11:17.360 -> 01:11:19.200] And I thought you did a great job as well, mate. [01:11:19.200 -> 01:11:20.360] I thoroughly enjoyed listening to it. [01:11:20.360 -> 01:11:21.360] Even without my wingman. [01:11:21.360 -> 01:11:23.440] No, no, I really enjoyed listening to it. [01:11:23.440 -> 01:11:24.440] I thought it was brilliant. [01:11:24.440 -> 01:11:25.500] So, well done. [01:11:25.500 -> 01:11:28.280] So, there we go. [01:11:28.280 -> 01:11:30.320] Gordon Ramsay on the High Performance Podcast. [01:11:30.320 -> 01:11:34.280] Listen, if you want high performance in your hand every single day, then you can download [01:11:34.280 -> 01:11:35.520] the High Performance app. [01:11:35.520 -> 01:11:38.640] You will get daily boosts, so you'll hear messages from our guests. [01:11:38.640 -> 01:11:43.320] You'll get early access to episodes, hear them before anybody else, exclusive content, [01:11:43.320 -> 01:11:45.000] and loads more still to come. [01:11:48.040 -> 01:11:53.880] I honestly recommend that you go to the app store right now, download high performance and use your unique access code, HPAPP for access. [01:11:54.680 -> 01:11:55.860] Thank you so much for listening. [01:11:55.860 -> 01:11:58.760] Please continue to spread the learnings that you're taking from these [01:11:58.760 -> 01:12:02.640] conversations, wherever you are in the world, chase world-class basics, [01:12:02.900 -> 01:12:05.760] remain humble and, high performance looks [01:12:05.760 -> 01:12:39.120] different to everyone, so for your small business. [01:12:39.120 -> 01:12:44.120] You want to be 100% certain that you have access to the best qualified candidates available. [01:12:44.120 -> 01:12:46.720] That's why you have to check out LinkedIn Jobs. [01:12:46.720 -> 01:12:52.400] LinkedIn Jobs helps find the right people for your team, faster and for free. [01:12:52.400 -> 01:12:55.000] Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com. [01:12:55.000 -> 01:13:00.000] That's LinkedIn.com. [01:13:00.000 -> 01:13:01.600] To post your job for free. [01:13:01.600 -> 01:13:02.720] Terms and conditions apply. [01:12:58.760 -> 01:13:00.480] to post your job for free. [01:13:00.480 -> 01:13:01.980] Terms and conditions apply.