Please note that the summary is generated based on the transcript and
may not capture all the nuances or details discussed in the podcast
episode.
Notes
Dylan Hartley won 97 caps for England, the most by any hooker, and as the England captain he had an incredible 85% win record. He led his country to two Six Nations titles – one of which was the first grand slam in 13 years – and a first away series win in Australia. Dylan also made 251 appearances for Northampton Saints and spent eight years as their skipper. His career was not without controversy, with the hooker racking up almost two years’ worth of bans for foul play.
[00:00.000 -> 00:07.440] You're listening to high-performance welcome along I think you're gonna find today rather interesting [00:09.400 -> 00:15.180] But I'm just so happy when I look back at it the ups and downs the undulating kind of nature of my career has just [00:15.180 -> 00:21.440] Taught me that you know shit's gonna happen good things happen bad things happen. It's literally a moment [00:21.960 -> 00:23.960] Enjoy the good ones when they happen [00:24.160 -> 00:26.080] The bad ones that will happen they won't last, you know, and there'll be another moment, enjoy the good ones when they happen, the bad ones will happen, [00:26.080 -> 00:49.440] they won't last, you know, and there'll be another moment just around the corner. charge you a little. So naturally, when they announced they'd be raising their prices due to inflation, we decided to deflate our prices due to not hating you. That's right. We're [00:49.440 -> 00:54.720] cutting the price of Mint Unlimited from $30 a month to just $15 a month. Give it a try at [00:54.720 -> 00:59.200] mintmobile.com slash switch. $45 up front for three months plus taxes and fees. Promoting for [00:59.200 -> 01:02.320] new customers for a limited time. Unlimited more than 40 gigabytes per month. Slows. Full terms at [01:02.320 -> 01:05.600] mintm mobile.com [01:09.920 -> 01:15.840] On our podcast we love to highlight businesses that are doing things a better way so you can live a better life and that's why when I found mint mobile I had to share. So mint mobile ditched [01:15.840 -> 01:21.440] retail stores and all those overhead costs and instead sells their phone plans online and passes [01:21.440 -> 01:29.360] those savings to you and for a limited time they're passing on even more savings with a new customer offer that cuts all Mint Mobile plans to [01:29.360 -> 01:34.640] $15 a month when you purchase a three-month plan. That's unlimited talk [01:34.640 -> 01:41.840] text and data for $15 a month and by the way the quality of Mint Mobile's [01:41.840 -> 01:45.040] wireless service in comparison to providers that we've worked with [01:45.040 -> 01:51.920] before is incredible. Mint Mobile is here to rescue you with premium wireless plans for 15 bucks a [01:51.920 -> 01:57.040] month. So say goodbye to your overpriced wireless plans, those jaw-dropping monthly bills, those [01:57.040 -> 02:02.560] unexpected overages, because all the plans come with unlimited talk and text and high speed data [02:02.560 -> 02:06.040] delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. [02:06.040 -> 02:10.520] Use your own phone with any Mint Mobile plan, bring your phone number along with all your [02:10.520 -> 02:12.080] existing contacts. [02:12.080 -> 02:16.680] So ditch overpriced wireless with Mint Mobile's limited time deal and get premium wireless [02:16.680 -> 02:26.320] service for just $15 a month. To get this new customer offer and your new three-month unlimited wireless plan for just 15 [02:24.400 -> 02:29.720] bucks a month go to mintmobile.com [02:26.320 -> 02:33.640] slash HPP that's mintmobile.com [02:29.720 -> 02:37.120] slash HPP cut your wireless bill to 15 [02:33.640 -> 02:39.280] bucks a month at mintmobile.com slash HPP [02:37.120 -> 02:46.480] additional taxes fees and restrictions [02:39.280 -> 02:46.400] apply see mint mobile for details. [02:46.400 -> 02:50.240] Hi I'm Jake Humphrey and you're listening to High Performance, the podcast that delves [02:50.240 -> 02:55.760] into the minds of some of the most successful athletes, visionaries, entrepreneurs and artists [02:55.760 -> 03:00.560] on the planet and aims to unlock the very secrets to their success. [03:00.560 -> 03:08.000] With me as always, Professor, Lecturer, Superbrain, Damien Hughes, ac rydyn ni'n bwysig iawn i gyd heddiw i ddod yn ystod y rhan fwyaf o'n gwestiwn, [03:08.000 -> 03:14.000] y hoff yng Nghymru, sydd wedi cymryd record 85% pan oedd yn ymwneud â'i wlad, [03:14.000 -> 03:18.000] ond hefyd oedd gan bandiau, gan gynllunio gyda'r amser o chwaraeon, [03:18.000 -> 03:20.000] sy'n rhaid i mi ddod yn ystod y rhan fwyaf o'r gweithgaredd. [03:20.000 -> 03:21.000] Dyma'r rhan fwyaf i mi. [03:21.000 -> 03:23.000] Beth ydych chi'n edrych arno i ddod allan o hyn? [03:23.000 -> 03:26.000] Rwy'n credu bod un o'r pethau pwysig on rhaid i mi ddweud hynny. Mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud hynny. [03:26.000 -> 03:28.000] Mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud hynny. [03:28.000 -> 03:30.000] Mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud hynny. [03:30.000 -> 03:32.000] Mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud hynny. [03:32.000 -> 03:34.000] Mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud hynny. [03:34.000 -> 03:36.000] Mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud hynny. [03:36.000 -> 03:38.000] Mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud hynny. [03:38.000 -> 03:40.000] Mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud hynny. [03:40.000 -> 03:42.000] Mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud hynny. [03:42.000 -> 03:44.000] Mae'n rhaid i mi ddweud hynny. [03:44.000 -> 03:46.000] Mae'n rhaid i mewn i'r cyngor. Mae'n rhaid i mewn i'r cyngor. Certainly not an athlete. You're a professor, you didn't tell me you're a professor. I'll tell you what, you're not getting in my head. [03:46.000 -> 03:51.000] So, Damien was saying that he's looking forward to discussing the fact that you've had to learn self-control on the job. [03:51.000 -> 03:53.000] Is that a fair point? [03:53.000 -> 03:58.000] I've learned some pretty valuable lessons on the job, certainly. [03:58.000 -> 03:59.000] But not self-control? [03:59.000 -> 04:02.000] Well, I've been in trouble, it's a bit like a cat. [04:02.000 -> 04:05.440] I've got eight bands, so I didn't quite get cat. I got eight bans, didn't quite get [04:05.440 -> 04:12.440] nine but we could say retirement was my final life. I got in trouble obviously a lot, that [04:12.940 -> 04:19.940] is a lot. I racked up a lot of suspensions but still managed to forge a pretty long career [04:21.160 -> 04:26.480] in the game at what we would probably say the one of the highest [04:26.480 -> 04:31.960] levels which I'm pretty proud of but never did the same thing twice did I [04:31.960 -> 04:36.320] learn my lessons I'm not sure I always seem to find myself getting in trouble [04:36.320 -> 04:40.160] but not for the same thing. So you learned not to do the same thing again [04:40.160 -> 04:43.840] but you didn't learn not to get yourself in trouble again. This is so [04:43.840 -> 04:45.000] interesting for me because when someone says to me an elite athlete I think ond ddim wedi dysgu na chael eich hun yn broblemau newydd. Mae hyn yn ddiddorol i mi, [04:45.000 -> 04:47.000] oherwydd pan ddweud rhywun i mi, [04:47.000 -> 04:49.000] athletau allanol, [04:49.000 -> 04:51.000] rwy'n meddwl am rhywun sy'n cymryd gwaith [04:51.000 -> 04:53.000] ar gyfer y rheolwr, ar gyfer y tîm, ar gyfer eu hunain. [04:53.000 -> 04:55.000] A wnaethwch hynny. [04:55.000 -> 04:57.000] Fe wnaethwch chi'r llwyr o'ch wlad ar nifer o gyfres. [04:57.000 -> 04:59.000] Felly roeddech chi'n gallu cymryd gwaith [04:59.000 -> 05:01.000] ar y nifer mwyaf. [05:01.000 -> 05:03.000] Ond ar y sama o bryd, [05:03.000 -> 05:09.040] ar unrhyw rheswm, roeddech chi'n cael eich hun yn broblemau. Rwy'n mwynhau'r ffaith level but then at the same time for whatever reason you kept on sort of getting yourself into trouble I'm just so interested about how you managed to [05:09.040 -> 05:12.440] do both or maybe why you think you did both? [05:12.440 -> 05:18.080] I think the captaincy stuff and that responsibility for England came at you [05:18.080 -> 05:27.520] know later in my career I think I won sort of blip in that time. And I always took my role really seriously. [05:27.520 -> 05:32.520] I was really organized, I was really notebook focused. [05:33.240 -> 05:34.680] I always wrote everything down. [05:34.680 -> 05:36.560] In a day and age where phones and iPads [05:36.560 -> 05:38.320] all of a sudden are creeping up in meetings [05:38.320 -> 05:39.520] and you hear people typing away, [05:39.520 -> 05:41.800] like tick, tick, tick, tick, it always pissed me off. [05:41.800 -> 05:44.120] I'd always be kind of old school, write things down. [05:44.120 -> 05:45.480] I'd always prepare before meetings. I'd always be kind of old school, write things down. I'd always prepare before meetings. [05:45.480 -> 05:47.480] I'd always take notes. [05:47.480 -> 05:52.160] And I took that really seriously and I learned that over a period of time. [05:52.160 -> 05:58.880] What I've always kind of done and still do now is I watch and I evaluate people, how [05:58.880 -> 06:03.720] they sit, how they stand, how they deliver, how do they open. [06:03.720 -> 06:26.040] And I always think that's good or that's bad. How could I do it better than them? Should I try that? y gallwn ni ddweud, a sut y gallwn ni ddweud, a sut y gallwn ni ddweud, a sut y gallwn ni ddweud, a sut y gallwn ni ddweud, a sut y gallwn ni ddweud, a sut y gallwn ni ddweud, a sut y gallwn ni ddweud, a sut y gallwn ni ddweud, a sut y gallwn ni ddweud, a sut y gallwn ni ddweud, a sut y gallwn ni ddweud, a sut y gallwn ni ddweud, a sut y gallwn ni ddweud, a sut y gallwn ni ddweud, a sut y gallwn ni ddweud, a sut y gallwn ni ddweud, a sut y gallwn ni ddweud, a sut y gallwn ni ddweud, a sut y gallwn ni ddweud, a sut y gallwn ni ddweud, a sut y gallwn ni ddweud, a sut y gallwn ni ddweud, a sut y gallwn ni ddweud, a sut y gallwn ni ddweud, a sut y gallwn ni ddweud, a sut y gallwn ni ddweud, a sut y gallwn ni ddweud, a sut y gallan ni ddweud, a sut y gallan ni ddweud, a sut y gallan ni ddweud, a sut y gallan ni ddweud, a sut y gallan ni ddweud, a sut y gallan ni dweud, a sut y gallan ni dweud, a sut y callan ni dweud, a sut y callan ni dweud, a sut y callan ni dweud, a sut y callan ni dweud, a sut y callan ni dweud, a sutlynyddoedd ifanc, roedd yn ddiddorol iawn, ond rydw i wedi edrych ar ymdrechion mwyaf [06:26.040 -> 06:27.520] ac rydw i wedi dysgu. [06:27.520 -> 06:30.000] Felly, beth oedd y fathionnel i'w dewis chi [06:30.000 -> 06:31.200] ar 23 oed? [06:31.200 -> 06:33.760] Roeddwn i'n chwaraewr arbennig. [06:33.760 -> 06:35.200] Roeddwn i'n gofynol. [06:35.200 -> 06:36.840] Roeddwn i eisiau meddwl [06:36.840 -> 06:38.400] nad oeddwn i unrhyw chwaraewr glamorus, [06:38.400 -> 06:40.600] ond roeddwn i'n cymryd. [06:40.600 -> 06:41.840] Ac rydw i'n dweud fwy o'r cwip, [06:41.840 -> 06:43.000] rwy'n credu, rydw i wedi gynnal y carrer [06:43.000 -> 06:44.600] ar 15 mlynedd [06:44.600 -> 07:07.520] heb unrhyw ddwylo o allanwyr athletig, ond drwy ddynion gwaith a manteisio, I think I forged a game for me. [07:07.520 -> 07:12.560] That was performing, whatever you want to call it, acting, performing, turning up every day [07:12.560 -> 07:15.440] and making sure myself and the team were preparing well. [07:15.440 -> 07:20.240] So on Saturday we played well and that kind of fell on my shoulders to do that. [07:20.240 -> 07:22.320] So I don't know what the rationale was. [07:22.320 -> 07:25.760] Maybe the person who chucked the captaincy to me saw a good work ethic and a good mindset. Felly, dydw i ddim yn gwybod pa fath o fath. Efallai y bobl sy'n siarad â'r captaincyd i mi [07:25.760 -> 07:29.360] oedd yn gweld ethoedd gwaith da a ddau oedd yn ddweud hynny. [07:29.360 -> 07:31.560] Oherwydd mae hynny'n ddweud i mi, [07:31.560 -> 07:34.160] fel un o'r cynllun y gwnawn i, [07:34.160 -> 07:36.080] rydw i'n defnyddio'r ffrase o architecta'r diwylliannol [07:36.080 -> 07:39.080] yn y tîm, rhywun sy'n sefydlu'r standardau, [07:39.080 -> 07:42.000] sefydlu'r tonau gan eu mhobl ffynediadau eu hunain. [07:42.000 -> 07:43.920] Felly, sut wnaethoch chi ymdrechu ag bobl [07:43.920 -> 07:46.000] na allu byw i'ch effaith gwaith, [07:46.000 -> 07:50.000] eich ddiddorol i fynd y ffordd o'r ffordd? [07:50.000 -> 07:52.000] Rwy'n credu, [07:52.000 -> 07:54.000] yn y mhob amgylcheddau cyffredinol hyn, [07:54.000 -> 07:56.000] oherwydd yw'n ymdrech ym Mhentyn, [07:56.000 -> 07:58.000] neu oherwydd yw'n ym Mhenglann, [07:58.000 -> 08:00.000] yn y pen draw, nid oedd yn ddod gyda fi. [08:00.000 -> 08:02.000] Rydym yn seilio'r cyfeiriadau [08:02.000 -> 08:05.360] ac os yw gennych y mwyaf o'r tîm gyda chi, mae'n amlwg pan fydd yn ddod allan o hynny. Gallai fod yn ymddangos i ddrinio, You know, we set the standards and if you've got the majority of the team with you, it's [08:05.360 -> 08:07.400] obvious who falls outside of that. [08:07.400 -> 08:12.520] That could be in reference to drinking culture, it could be in reference to training standards, [08:12.520 -> 08:14.640] dress standards, these sorts of things. [08:14.640 -> 08:18.800] You make yourself really obvious, so if you don't come along with the rest, you make yourself [08:18.800 -> 08:21.040] clear as day that you're not in it. [08:21.040 -> 08:27.000] And ultimately in these things, if you stand out like a sore thumb for the wrong reasons, you don't last. Yn y pethau hyn, os ydych chi'n dod o'r ffordd yn ddiddorol, dydych chi ddim yn digwydd. [08:27.000 -> 08:29.000] Felly nid oedd y cyfrifiad cyllidol. [08:29.000 -> 08:33.000] Yn y ffordd o'r chwaraewr, rwy'n gweithio llawer gyda Rio Ferdinand. [08:33.000 -> 08:37.000] Rwy'n cofio dweud wrthi, pan ddod o'r ffordd i'r chwaraewr newydd i'r ddresion, [08:37.000 -> 08:42.000] beth dweudodd Sir Alex Ferguson i gael y chwaraewr gwybod y standardau sydd wedi'u sefydlu? [08:42.000 -> 08:46.000] Ac fe wnaeth Rio dweud, nid oedd yn dweud unrhyw beth. Roedd hynny'n gwybod, rydyn ni'n gwneud y pethau sydd wedi'u gwneud. Ond rydyn ni'n gwneud y pethau sydd wedi'u gwneud. Iawn, rydyn ni'n gwneud y pethau sydd wedi'u gwneud. [08:46.000 -> 08:48.000] Iawn, rydyn ni'n gwneud y pethau sydd wedi'u gwneud. [08:48.000 -> 08:50.000] Iawn, rydyn ni'n gwneud y pethau sydd wedi'u gwneud. [08:50.000 -> 08:52.000] Iawn, rydyn ni'n gwneud y pethau sydd wedi'u gwneud. [08:52.000 -> 08:54.000] Iawn, rydyn ni'n gwneud y pethau sydd wedi'u gwneud. [08:54.000 -> 08:56.000] Iawn, rydyn ni'n gwneud y pethau sydd wedi'u gwneud. [08:56.000 -> 08:58.000] Iawn, rydyn ni'n gwneud y pethau sydd wedi'u gwneud. [08:58.000 -> 09:00.000] Iawn, rydyn ni'n gwneud y pethau sydd wedi'u gwneud. [09:00.000 -> 09:02.000] Iawn, rydyn ni'n gwneud y pethau sydd wedi'u gwneud. [09:02.000 -> 09:04.000] Iawn, rydyn ni'n gwneud y pethau sydd wedi'u gwneud. [09:04.000 -> 09:07.440] Iawn, rydyn ni'n gwneud themau sydd wedi'u gwneud. Iawn, rydyn ni'n gwneud themau sydd wedi'u gwneud. titles and we celebrate trophies don't come in here celebrating a victory because that's not how we operate that was really interesting for me because as [09:07.440 -> 09:12.640] a non-professional sports person I've always assumed the manager takes that [09:12.640 -> 09:17.520] role but the players are key to carrying out the managers desires right? [09:17.520 -> 09:21.720] Rugby might be a bit different is it but the team is the team's it's not the [09:21.720 -> 09:28.640] managers team that is on field stuff that is kind of shared and sometimes dictated by coaches. [09:28.640 -> 09:32.080] But culturally, I think the team runs itself. [09:32.080 -> 09:34.320] I think the best culture is the ones that you feel. [09:34.960 -> 09:39.920] You walk in, it sounds kind of almost cliche, but you see it and you smell it and you know. [09:40.800 -> 09:45.520] When you walk in that changing room or you go into that training field, you know what's expected. [09:45.520 -> 09:55.120] And if you've got anything about you, you look for the way that people conduct themselves and you think that's what's acceptable. [09:55.120 -> 10:04.560] And if someone's taken a liking to you, they might give you a little nudge and say, you know, this is how we do it here, or you shouldn't be doing that, you know, next time do this. [10:04.560 -> 10:06.120] A culture is something that you see. this is how we do it here or you shouldn't be doing that, you know, next time do this. [10:08.160 -> 10:08.440] A culture is something that you see. [10:16.000 -> 10:16.720] So when you've been part of a bad culture, then Dylan, how have you, what steps have you taken, especially as a senior leader, to address that and tackle it? [10:17.440 -> 10:18.080] Do you know what? [10:27.360 -> 10:31.880] Bad cultures is probably a bit too far to take it because I can think of examples in my early England rugby days, the culture, what it was, what it was at the time, we still trained hard, we worked hard, we prepared [10:31.880 -> 10:35.520] hard for the time that we're in. [10:35.520 -> 10:40.400] But looking back, the alcohol culture surrounded, you know, times have changed since then. [10:40.400 -> 10:46.560] At the time it was accepted, but looking back at it now, it wasn't right. And as a young kind of, you know, [10:46.560 -> 10:49.960] young England player coming through at 21, 22, [10:49.960 -> 10:51.440] my role models in the team, [10:51.440 -> 10:53.520] the bulk of the team were doing that. [10:53.520 -> 10:56.520] And then Johnny Wilkinson was over there doing his thing. [10:56.520 -> 10:59.160] And I'm like, why didn't I just tap into that [10:59.160 -> 11:00.860] and tap into his psyche? [11:00.860 -> 11:04.480] And as I grew and I matured, [11:04.480 -> 11:06.000] obviously got to a point where I look back and I thought, fuck, I should have spent more time with Johnny ac fel i greu ac i fynd yn ddwywedig, rydw i'n gweld yn ôl a meddwl, [11:06.000 -> 11:09.000] ffwrdd, rhaid i mi gael mwy o amser gyda Johnny [11:09.000 -> 11:11.000] a'i ddod i mewn i hynny, [11:11.000 -> 11:14.000] ond mae'r cyfan o'r tîm wedi newid i un dyrfa [11:14.000 -> 11:16.000] ac rydw i wedi mynd gyda hynny oherwydd roeddwn i'n ifanc [11:16.000 -> 11:18.000] ac roeddwn i'n galluog. [11:18.000 -> 11:21.000] Felly pan ddechreuwch i Northampton yna Dylan, [11:21.000 -> 11:24.000] rwy'n meddwl y diwydiant yno [11:24.000 -> 11:30.000] nid yw'n ychydig yn yr un sydd wedi'i profi gyda L ddinas yno, dim ond y byddwch chi wedi cael ymdrech ar y ddinas yno, a dylai eich bod chi wedi cael ymgyrchu fel dyrfaoedd. [11:30.000 -> 11:46.380] Pa ffyrdd oeddech chi'n ei wneud i ddod o'r ffynonell Wilkinson y dywedoddwch eich bod chi eisiau cydnabod yn gyntaf? international sport and club sport. I think international sport is really cut [11:46.380 -> 11:50.820] throat and it is 110 miles an hour. You know whenever I played for England it [11:50.820 -> 11:55.860] was for three weeks or longest period might have been seven to eight weeks. So [11:55.860 -> 12:00.220] it's in there, it's intense, it's mentally you're on, physically you're on the whole [12:00.220 -> 12:09.920] time but you can't sustain that within a club environment week in week out so you've got to be able to not lower your expectations but change your [12:09.920 -> 12:14.960] expectations of what is acceptable and the high-performance thing with [12:14.960 -> 12:18.260] England rugby if you're not coming to the party you stick out like a sore [12:18.260 -> 12:22.680] thumb and you're gone and someone else is kind of chomping at the bit to come [12:22.680 -> 12:29.040] in and have a shot whereas at club footy you need to kind of educate people. You've got 35 year [12:29.040 -> 12:32.200] olds and you've got 18 year olds straight out of school so you can't blame an 18 [12:32.200 -> 12:36.080] year old for not seeing and smelling things straight away. You need to educate [12:36.080 -> 12:39.880] them on what it's like to prepare. I caught a kid on snapchat before a game [12:39.880 -> 12:43.440] the other day. He goes yeah but I like to be relaxed before a game. I'm like you [12:43.440 -> 12:45.600] don't even know what it's like to prepare for a game. [12:45.600 -> 12:47.080] You don't even know what relaxed is. [12:47.080 -> 12:49.960] And when the 35 year old two time world cup winner [12:49.960 -> 12:52.960] looks over at you and sees you on Snapchat, [12:52.960 -> 12:54.720] he doesn't think you're preparing well. [12:54.720 -> 12:56.240] So when did you learn to do that then? [12:56.240 -> 12:58.800] Cause at 23, you've been thrown into this [12:58.800 -> 13:01.800] and now you're describing calling out a young kid [13:01.800 -> 13:03.600] for not preparing thoroughly. [13:03.600 -> 13:07.640] So when did that transition of being a leader, a vocal leader happen? [13:08.120 -> 13:08.680] I don't know. [13:08.680 -> 13:11.000] I've always said it how I saw it. [13:11.000 -> 13:15.160] And if people were talking about it over here, saying we saw this happening, [13:15.160 -> 13:17.000] I'm like, what have you told them? [13:17.000 -> 13:18.120] And a lot of people don't do that. [13:18.120 -> 13:21.800] And I will find the right time for a start and just say that's not right. [13:22.200 -> 13:25.040] Yeah. And just don't say it's wrong, but maybe question it. [13:25.040 -> 13:26.320] Is it the right thing to be doing? [13:26.600 -> 13:29.160] And did you want people to be like that with you when you were playing? [13:29.160 -> 13:31.520] If someone had an issue, come and speak to Dylan Hartley about it. [13:32.200 -> 13:33.120] And how did you deal with it? [13:34.000 -> 13:35.120] You take it for what it is. [13:35.200 -> 13:39.480] And again, like you come across terms like performance conversations. [13:39.520 -> 13:42.800] So no one's feelings get hurt, but you hear about things like that. [13:42.800 -> 13:45.360] And Eddie Jones taught me something, you know, [13:45.360 -> 13:49.160] when, when teams finish training and they huddle together and they debrief training [13:49.520 -> 13:52.320] and you resolve things post-training in the huddle, [13:52.320 -> 13:54.200] and say tomorrow we'll work on that, we'll be better. [13:54.600 -> 13:55.640] It's too late by then. [13:55.800 -> 14:00.160] Traditionally, we've always done it, but it's a shit tradition. [14:00.360 -> 14:03.480] You should always like review after training, but how come you're not [14:03.480 -> 14:04.760] reviewing during training? [14:08.680 -> 14:08.760] It's too late by the end of training to wait till tomorrow to revisit it [14:14.680 -> 14:14.760] But call it as you see it if you're not getting what you want tell the person so performance goes up [14:22.400 -> 14:23.080] So when these occasions we alluded to at the start where you've been sent off or you've been facing a long suspension [14:26.280 -> 14:30.400] Who told you then who called you out on it? Those, so all my incidents were kind of like blip moments. [14:30.400 -> 14:33.840] It's not like it was a negative downward spiral [14:33.840 -> 14:34.960] that led to them. [14:34.960 -> 14:37.680] I'd always trained hard in the week and prepared well. [14:37.680 -> 14:39.800] And then if anything, [14:39.800 -> 14:42.440] probably got a little bit too much into it, [14:42.440 -> 14:45.320] tried impacting the game in a good way, but [14:45.320 -> 14:50.440] there's one the other day where I swung my arm and I almost decapitated Sean O'Brien [14:50.440 -> 14:55.560] which I apologise for. And it looks ugly looking back at it, but I remember watching it, Northampton [14:55.560 -> 15:00.200] at the time was struggling, I was club captain, I've been away, I think it was the Autumn [15:00.200 -> 15:05.400] Internationals, so I'd have four games away, my club team that I'm captain of are struggling, [15:05.400 -> 15:08.840] big European fixture against Leinster, [15:08.840 -> 15:11.640] you know, we're 20, 30 points down, I'm on the bench, [15:11.640 -> 15:16.280] and I'm thinking I'm responsible for this performance. [15:16.280 -> 15:19.560] So I'm like, get me on, and when I go on, [15:19.560 -> 15:21.580] I wanna make an impact, let's do something good, [15:21.580 -> 15:23.320] let's do something really physical, [15:23.320 -> 15:27.520] we've been really soft in the contact area, opportunity presents itself to smack [15:27.520 -> 15:33.120] someone, physically dominate someone, technique all wrong and almost take his [15:33.120 -> 15:37.600] head off, red card within 30 seconds of being on the field, it's like that is not [15:37.600 -> 15:41.080] good. And that sounds like there's an awful lot of context that you've [15:41.080 -> 15:50.320] explained around that but would you not have wanted one of your teammates to say that was a lack of discipline or that was a lack of control that you came on Mae yna lawer o gynhyrchion y dywedoddwch ar hynny, ond a oedd eich cymryd un o'ch cymrydwyr i ddweud bod hynny'n ddifrifoedd o ddiscyplïn, neu bod hynny'n ddifroedd o gyrrwyddo a ddod o hyd i [15:50.320 -> 15:54.160] ddifroedd i ddod o hyd i'r tempo heb mynd i ffwrddio'r dŵr fel hyn? [15:54.160 -> 15:58.960] Y peth yw, roeddwn i bob amser yn ddigon yn ymwybodol, roeddwn i'n gwybod bod gen i wneud rhywbeth yn gyfraith, [15:58.960 -> 16:07.720] ac yna o'r ddŵr hwnnw, rydw i wedi gweithio ar ychydig o wythnosau ar y technic o'r teckle I've worked for probably eight weeks on tackle technique on my days off to go [16:07.720 -> 16:10.080] and work with England defence coaches so [16:10.080 -> 16:11.800] my life became hell off the back of that [16:11.800 -> 16:15.320] the realisation that it was a technique [16:15.320 -> 16:18.120] issue for me the intent behind it was [16:18.120 -> 16:19.920] good that's what made me the player I [16:19.920 -> 16:21.840] was because with zero athletic ability [16:21.840 -> 16:24.960] I had a good mindset and a good work ethic [16:24.960 -> 16:25.020] so what about the incidents where it wasn't bad technique where it was so I Because with zero athletic ability I had a good mindset and a good work ethic [16:29.380 -> 16:34.700] So what about the incidents where it wasn't bad technique where it was so I bit someone's finger We lost it right so loss of control right in that. No, what was that then? Wow, I bit someone's finger [16:34.700 -> 16:39.420] He had his hand in my mouth and he's pulling my head and I prefer put my hand in your mouth and pulled it [16:39.660 -> 16:46.240] You might buy down so I got banned for that and I admitted that look, this has happened, but there's a hand in my mouth and [16:46.240 -> 16:47.160] it's pulling my head. [16:47.760 -> 16:49.840] I didn't even mean to bite him, but I've bitten him. [16:50.200 -> 16:50.800] I'm sorry. [16:51.440 -> 16:53.080] So that happens. [16:53.400 -> 16:56.160] So is there ever an incident where you, where you think actually you did lose [16:56.160 -> 17:01.480] control or of all of these bands, like of, of punch people of elbowed people? [17:01.520 -> 17:06.920] Um, do you know if someone, I worked with one guy, I don't know if he's a professor, not [17:06.920 -> 17:11.920] justifying any of it, but it's understanding myself and being self-aware. [17:11.920 -> 17:18.400] He explained to me that I might be like a caveman and everything out there is like the [17:18.400 -> 17:21.080] jungle, so I act on instinct. [17:21.080 -> 17:29.040] So when someone grabs me from behind and I don't like it, I say, get off. It's a threat, I deal with it. yn ystyried. Felly pan ddweodd rhywun yn mynd o'r ôl ac dwi ddim yn hoffi, dweudais, gei'r ffwrdd. Mae'n ystyried, rydw i'n ymddangos arno. Felly efallai, ychydig o ddechrau [17:29.040 -> 17:32.000] ymhell, rydw i'n ymddangos arno. A allech chi... [17:32.000 -> 17:36.480] Wel, mae rhywbeth ynghylch hynny. Mae ynghylch hynny, pan ydych chi'n ymwneud â'r atgaf, [17:36.480 -> 17:40.240] mae'ch ystyriedau primordi yn dod allan ac ydych chi'n mynd i'r hysbysu, i fflwyddo neu i gael y brif, [17:40.240 -> 17:44.160] ac rydych chi'n ysgrifennu'r cyfrifoldeb hwnnw. Byddwn i'n ystyried [17:44.160 -> 17:45.400] ystyried yn wahanol ffyrdd, ond ein cyfrifoldeb yfraniad. Byddwn i gyd yn ymdrechu'r threath mewn ffyrdd gwahanol, [17:45.400 -> 17:48.000] ond ein cyfraniad yw bod rhai bobl yn gallu [17:48.000 -> 17:49.400] ffeicio unrhyw ddysgwyr, er enghraifft, [17:49.400 -> 17:51.200] yn y gêm a'n edrych i ddod allan o'r ffyrdd [17:51.200 -> 17:53.200] pan mae'n cael ei ystyried fel bod y cyfle cynnar [17:53.200 -> 17:54.200] wedi mynd arnynt. [17:54.200 -> 17:56.000] Mae rhai chwaraewyr yn mynd i mewn i'w sgiliau [17:56.000 -> 17:57.200] a mynd i'r cyfraniad o'r hysbys. [17:57.200 -> 17:59.000] Neu mae rhai yn mynd i fod yn ddwywyr [17:59.000 -> 18:02.800] a weithiau yn ddisgyblinio neu'n ychydig o'r ffyrdd. [18:02.800 -> 18:04.200] Ond yr hyn sy'n fy ymdrechu yw [18:04.200 -> 18:06.560] y dywedwch, dweud fel y swingin armau [18:06.560 -> 18:07.640] y dywedwch chi, [18:07.640 -> 18:08.520] y byddwch chi wedi dod i gyd [18:08.520 -> 18:11.280] weithiau o ddiffyg technical i'w gynnyrchu. [18:11.280 -> 18:13.280] Ond y cymhwysterau o [18:13.280 -> 18:15.080] lle dywedwch chi ddiddorol fel hyn, [18:15.080 -> 18:17.400] fel ychydig o ddiddorol yn y ffyng yn rhywun ar y gynulliad, [18:17.400 -> 18:19.000] neu beth bynnag. [18:19.000 -> 18:19.960] Dyma oedd yn ddiddorol. [18:19.960 -> 18:20.800] Iawn. [18:20.800 -> 18:21.640] Felly, [18:21.640 -> 18:23.440] yw ar y nifer James Heskell hefyd. [18:23.440 -> 18:25.000] Wel, mae cymorth arbennig y gallwch chi ddweud. Mae'n un o'r gwyfriau mwyaf. Iawn. Iawn. Iawn. Iawn. Iawn. [18:25.000 -> 18:26.000] Iawn. [18:26.000 -> 18:27.000] Iawn. [18:27.000 -> 18:28.000] Iawn. [18:28.000 -> 18:29.000] Iawn. [18:29.000 -> 18:30.000] Iawn. [18:30.000 -> 18:31.000] Iawn. [18:31.000 -> 18:32.000] Iawn. [18:32.000 -> 18:33.000] Iawn. [18:33.000 -> 18:34.000] Iawn. [18:34.000 -> 18:35.000] Iawn. [18:35.000 -> 18:36.000] Iawn. [18:36.000 -> 18:37.000] Iawn. [18:37.000 -> 18:38.000] Iawn. [18:38.000 -> 18:39.000] Iawn. [18:39.000 -> 18:40.000] Iawn. [18:40.000 -> 18:41.000] Iawn. [18:41.000 -> 18:42.000] Iawn. [18:42.000 -> 18:43.000] Iawn. [18:43.000 -> 18:44.000] Iawn. [18:44.000 -> 18:46.880] Iawn. Iawn. Iawn. Iawn. Iawn. So what I learned is like you go through this um, you kind of get the trial by social media thing and you get the like [18:46.880 -> 18:49.960] A shame a guilt and anxiety kind of sickness [18:50.360 -> 18:56.120] Like going to rugby court is like going to like high court. It's full of suits. There's a whole lot of words [18:56.120 -> 18:59.600] You do not understand. It's not a comfortable place [18:59.600 -> 19:03.600] So once I've done that process a couple of times and bearing in mind [19:03.600 -> 19:09.160] I got banned eight times gearing up to go down to the Hilton at Heathrow was a horrible experience, or [19:09.160 -> 19:14.920] you know, the holiday in Coventry, literally sent to Coventry, was not an enjoyable process. [19:14.920 -> 19:18.640] So as soon as you're cited, you know, it's like, oh shit, not again. [19:18.640 -> 19:22.760] It's like a nervous, sicky feeling, because it's the unknown. [19:22.760 -> 19:25.040] And then when you come out, it's like you've got eight weeks for this [19:25.540 -> 19:28.980] You've got ten weeks for this and that is the good the good part [19:28.980 -> 19:35.100] You can actually then put it behind you and look forward your mindset goes to the positive immediately [19:35.100 -> 19:38.740] Even if it's an eight-week ban straight away, you're like right done. Let's go [19:38.740 -> 19:43.340] That was the best bit as soon as you get your your time. It was like right I can plan [19:44.880 -> 19:50.160] As soon as you get your time, it was like, right, I can plan. I really enjoyed everyone saying, you'll never play for so-and-so again, you're not good [19:50.160 -> 19:52.200] enough, we don't want players like that playing. [19:52.200 -> 19:57.080] And I actually really enjoyed the narrative of coming back from it. [19:57.080 -> 19:59.680] So I always made like mental goals. [19:59.680 -> 20:02.160] I used to write certain things down. [20:02.160 -> 20:03.840] It wasn't anything long-winded. [20:03.840 -> 20:06.600] I will play for England again, write down a date, [20:06.600 -> 20:09.840] you know, Six Nations, 2000, whatever it was, [20:09.840 -> 20:11.280] and I'd train towards it. [20:11.280 -> 20:13.640] I always think one of the mistakes we make [20:13.640 -> 20:14.760] in modern life particularly [20:14.760 -> 20:17.240] is we love to deflect responsibility. [20:17.240 -> 20:19.760] Oh, I can't do that because, oh, I'm a victim. [20:19.760 -> 20:23.800] You know, we revel now in victim culture. [20:23.800 -> 20:25.720] Do you think at any point you were a victim [20:25.720 -> 20:27.960] or have you had to put yourself in the mindset [20:27.960 -> 20:30.560] of you take complete responsibility [20:30.560 -> 20:33.280] for anything that happened on the football field? [20:33.280 -> 20:38.280] I've had to, and I understand that it kind of came [20:38.520 -> 20:41.160] with the territory, I almost made a rod for my own back [20:41.160 -> 20:42.440] and whatever happened, happened, [20:42.440 -> 20:44.280] whether I agreed with it or not. [20:44.280 -> 20:45.760] If anything, it was one of those things [20:45.760 -> 20:48.920] I kind of challenged myself to front up. [20:48.920 -> 20:51.800] So I've got so many friends that can't do [20:51.800 -> 20:53.960] pathetic but social media. [20:53.960 -> 20:55.640] Like I was like, fuck it, let's front up, [20:55.640 -> 20:57.600] let's read it, let's reply to a few people, [20:57.600 -> 20:58.880] it doesn't matter. [20:58.880 -> 21:01.520] Media, put your shoulders back, put your suit on, [21:01.520 -> 21:02.400] front up. [21:03.320 -> 21:08.040] 2013 when I got red carded in Northampton's [21:08.040 -> 21:12.920] first ever grand final in the premiership, you know, I thought I could [21:12.920 -> 21:18.680] get in a cab and go home or I could front up, go collect my medal and let [21:18.680 -> 21:22.160] people say their thing but I always just thought just front up and deal with it [21:22.160 -> 21:26.280] because if anything these are all kind of small lessons [21:26.280 -> 21:29.000] in life that sport teach you. [21:29.000 -> 21:32.040] And now I'm on the other side, sport is such a bubble. [21:32.040 -> 21:35.200] I look back at it and go, it was all bullshit. [21:35.200 -> 21:37.560] But at the time when it was my world, [21:37.560 -> 21:39.540] it was bloody difficult. [21:39.540 -> 21:41.340] Playing in a rugby town like Northampton [21:41.340 -> 21:44.120] where we are the dominant sporting team, [21:44.120 -> 21:49.880] having to go to the supermarket after losing the town's final was a difficult thing but I [21:49.880 -> 21:53.480] thought I've got to do it, I've got to deal with the old boys and old girls [21:53.480 -> 21:57.800] who want to chuck the two-peat at you and when I look back at it, it's nothing but I felt [21:57.800 -> 22:01.760] that sort of shame and I carried it but I didn't shy away from it, I thought I had [22:01.760 -> 22:05.200] to front up and even taking the England [22:05.200 -> 22:11.320] captaincy, I had that whole record behind me and I basically knew for a [22:11.320 -> 22:15.720] good month every interview I'd do would be like, do you trust your discipline to [22:15.720 -> 22:19.880] lead this team? And I kind of thought the build-up to the Six Nations was a fortnight [22:19.880 -> 22:23.640] of media. I'll just front up and I'll do it and I'll just roll out the same [22:23.640 -> 22:28.240] answer and I'll stick by it and then I'll just front up and I'll do it and I'll just roll out the same answer and I'll stick by it and then I'll just start playing and I'll play well and [22:28.240 -> 22:31.880] we'll win and that will deal with that and then we'll start talking about other [22:31.880 -> 22:35.920] things. That leads into an interesting question that Eddie Jones speaks around [22:35.920 -> 22:39.480] one of his great observations when he took over as England coach was that [22:39.480 -> 22:46.560] there was a lot of people being highly rewarded for delivering quite mediocre performances and results. [22:46.880 -> 22:52.680] So why do you think he chose you as his captain when that's an observation of the culture that he's brought in? [22:52.680 -> 22:55.560] What do you think the purpose of your selection was? [22:55.560 -> 22:57.640] I think he wanted to change. [22:58.440 -> 23:03.840] And then when you look at your group, I think I ticked the box in the fact for about [23:03.840 -> 23:04.680] I think I ticked the box in the fact for about [23:07.400 -> 23:07.480] Seven years I captained my club [23:12.560 -> 23:13.080] so there's kind of a little bit of experience there and would had a successful period so I [23:17.240 -> 23:24.560] Think I tick that captaincy box and then after talking to him I think he saw the group was fractured. I think he saw me as a people's person [23:23.680 -> 23:26.520] was fractured. I think he saw me as a people's person, again not the most [23:26.520 -> 23:29.160] talented player but I had something a [23:29.160 -> 23:30.840] connection with everyone in the room. I [23:30.840 -> 23:33.760] worked really hard at knowing my players [23:33.760 -> 23:35.600] having a little in joke with everyone [23:35.600 -> 23:38.200] and just probably naturally being one of [23:38.200 -> 23:39.760] the older guys as well who had been [23:39.760 -> 23:41.960] around the three of those things put [23:41.960 -> 23:44.440] together maybe saw me as that kind of [23:44.440 -> 23:46.960] foundation captain and we only we only agreed to do it for [23:46.960 -> 23:48.960] the one tournament and then [23:49.000 -> 23:51.000] the workload came my way and [23:51.640 -> 23:55.040] Shit, it was it was some workload. I'd never been mentored [23:55.560 -> 24:00.920] Like that, but then Eddie starts firing stuff at me. Look at this guy read this listen to this [24:01.160 -> 24:05.360] Tell me what you think about these three things. Feedback after meeting, [24:05.360 -> 24:11.000] next time you do that. I loved it. I absolutely loved it. That's why I speak so highly of [24:11.000 -> 24:17.080] him. The sort of time that he invested in me to develop me, not only as a captain but [24:17.080 -> 24:20.000] as a player, I'll be forever grateful. [24:20.000 -> 24:23.160] What do you think it is that Eddie did for you more than anything else? [24:23.160 -> 24:29.200] Unlocked probably my personal potential and after a really checkered career I basically [24:29.200 -> 24:34.180] finished my last three and a half years or four years with some really good memories [24:34.180 -> 24:37.240] and if I didn't have that I wouldn't be sat here. [24:37.240 -> 24:38.520] And how did he do that? [24:38.520 -> 24:45.160] By basically developing me and it wasn't fun at the time, it was ugly because high performance, [24:45.160 -> 24:46.680] that's what we're here to talk about, is ugly. [24:46.680 -> 24:51.480] We see Saturdays as really fun, polished, you know, thing, [24:51.480 -> 24:53.520] a game or whatever it might be. [24:53.520 -> 24:57.640] But all the work that goes in behind the scenes is ugly and it hurts. [24:57.640 -> 25:00.480] You know, every other player is there just trying to be a good player. [25:00.480 -> 25:03.200] And I was there trying to be a good captain, trying to be a... [25:03.200 -> 25:07.760] I was almost like a member of staff, kind of preparing the team, debriefing [25:07.760 -> 25:10.000] training with every different department, everyone, [25:10.040 -> 25:12.000] you know, the organization that went into running [25:12.000 -> 25:14.920] that team, like I said, from Sunday to Friday, [25:15.600 -> 25:17.880] cause, cause performance was habitual, you know, [25:17.880 -> 25:20.800] we had to train well Monday, we had to train [25:20.800 -> 25:23.080] well Tuesday, we had to recover like we were [25:23.080 -> 25:23.920] training on Wednesday. [25:23.920 -> 25:25.600] It wasn't just pop down the spar anymore [25:25.600 -> 25:29.740] It was like timed ice baths. It was bang my man and start with [25:30.200 -> 25:33.160] Staff were kind of managing that until the players took responsibility [25:33.480 -> 25:39.480] And kiss who the players was the players was me and a couple of the senior players that had to get that message that [25:39.840 -> 25:47.080] Culture spread throughout the team. So the people listening to this who don't operate in a sports world or a rugby world, [25:47.080 -> 25:50.760] what would you say about creating an elite environment that Eddie Jones does so well [25:50.760 -> 25:54.320] that other people could apply to the world that they operate in? [25:54.320 -> 25:55.960] It starts at the top. [25:55.960 -> 25:56.960] It starts with him. [25:56.960 -> 25:58.640] He is relentless. [25:58.640 -> 26:01.240] His work ethic is second to none. [26:01.240 -> 26:08.000] So when he's like that, it literally just trickled down to ther coaches, i mi, i'r chwaraewyr senior, i'r grwp fwyaf. [26:08.000 -> 26:10.000] A oes gennych chi ddiddordeb? [26:10.000 -> 26:12.000] Dwi'n credu, mae'n ddweud fel [26:12.000 -> 26:14.000] y cynghoriad y gafodd i chi [26:14.000 -> 26:16.000] yn ystod y gynhyrchiad yn eich gyrfa [26:16.000 -> 26:18.000] roeddech chi'n agored iddo, [26:18.000 -> 26:20.000] a'ch siarad gyda'r ddiddordeb gwirioneddol [26:20.000 -> 26:22.000] am sut mae'n datblygu chi. [26:22.000 -> 26:24.000] A oes gennych chi ddiddordeb o fod yn y pen draw [26:24.000 -> 26:28.240] ar y cyflawniad hwnnw, gael y cymorth fwyaf? Os oedd gen i'r cyfnod, roedd e'n dod i mi'n cyfnod, [26:28.240 -> 26:32.000] a dweud, gallwch chi ddiweddaru nawr, gallwch chi chwarae mwy o gampau i Gymru, [26:32.000 -> 26:35.040] neu roedd e'n dweud, gallwch chi weithio'n fawr iawn, [26:35.040 -> 26:37.120] gallwch chi ddatblygu'n ffysigol fel chwaraeon, [26:37.120 -> 26:38.640] rydych chi ddim yn mynd i newid, [26:38.640 -> 26:41.280] ac roedd e'n dweud, gallwch chi gael cymorth i ffyrdd i'w gynnyrch, [26:41.280 -> 26:42.080] a'r cyfnod yma, [26:42.080 -> 26:42.960] a'r cyfnod yma, [26:42.960 -> 26:43.680] a'r cyfnod yma, [26:43.680 -> 26:44.240] a'r cyfnod yma, [26:44.240 -> 26:44.720] a'r cyfnod yma, [26:44.720 -> 26:48.320] a'r cyfnod yma, a'r cyfnod yma, a'r cyfnod yma, a'r cyfnod yma, a'r cyfnod yma, a'r cyfnod yma, a'r cyfnod yma, a'r cyfnod yma, a'r cyfnod yma, a'r cyfnod yma, a'r cyfnod yma, a'r cyfnod yma, a'r cyfnod yma, a'r cyfnod yma, a'r cyfnod yma, a' play so many games for England or he kind of said you can work really hard, you can develop physically as a player, you're not really going to change and he [26:48.320 -> 26:51.800] said you can win some things towards the end of your career. So he kind of unlocked my [26:51.800 -> 26:56.800] potential and then with him working with him in two months with Grand Slam, the [26:56.800 -> 27:00.520] first time we'd done that in I don't know how many years, 15 years, so I was [27:00.520 -> 27:05.880] like shit this is good, you know I want a bit of this and then the team started, you know day one [27:05.880 -> 27:08.680] He said you're gonna win the World Cup and you're gonna be number one in the world [27:08.960 -> 27:14.600] And he got the team to number one in the world and ultimately just didn't win the World Cup on our podcast [27:14.600 -> 27:19.020] We love to highlight businesses that are doing things a better way so you can live a better life [27:19.020 -> 27:29.620] And that's why when I found mint mobile I had to share so mint Mobile ditched retail stores and all those overhead costs and instead sells their phone plans online and passes [27:29.620 -> 27:33.540] those savings to you. And for a limited time they're passing on even more [27:33.540 -> 27:38.660] savings with a new customer offer that cuts all Mint Mobile plans to $15 a month [27:38.660 -> 27:47.960] when you purchase a three-month plan. That's unlimited unlimited talk text and data for $15 a month and by the [27:47.960 -> 27:52.040] way the quality of Mint Mobile's wireless service in comparison to [27:52.040 -> 27:56.560] providers that we've worked with before is incredible. Mint Mobile is here to [27:56.560 -> 28:01.240] rescue you with premium wireless plans for 15 bucks a month so say goodbye to [28:01.240 -> 28:09.360] your overpriced wireless plans those jaw-dropping monthly bills and unexpected overages, because all the plans come with unlimited talk and text [28:09.360 -> 28:15.280] and high-speed data delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. Use your own phone with [28:15.280 -> 28:20.120] any Mint Mobile plan, bring your phone number along with all your existing contacts. [28:20.120 -> 28:27.720] So ditch overpriced wireless with Mint Mobile's limited time deal and get premium wireless service for just $15 a month. [28:27.720 -> 28:32.640] To get this new customer offer and your new 3 month unlimited wireless plan for just $15 [28:32.640 -> 28:40.040] a month go to mintmobile.com.hpp [28:40.040 -> 28:46.080] Cut your wireless bill to $15 a month ar mintmobile.com.hpp. [28:46.080 -> 28:51.200] Mae'r taxau, y cyfrifoldeb a'r rheoliadau ar gael. Gweld Mint Mobile ar gyfer y deunyddau. [28:51.200 -> 28:57.080] I mi, mae'n ddiddorol pan ydych chi'n siarad, oherwydd edrych ar eich stori o'ch [28:57.080 -> 29:01.920] mynd i New Zealand ar 15 oed a dod i Ffynger a gwneud hynny ar eich hun. Mae hynny'n [29:01.920 -> 29:05.040] eithaf anhygoel. A ydych chi'n teimlo [29:05.040 -> 29:07.240] eich bod chi wedi bod yn ddifrifo'n eu hunain [29:07.240 -> 29:08.520] i'r pwynt honno, [29:08.520 -> 29:11.920] ac roeddech chi'n deimlo'n ddifrifo'n eich swydd? [29:11.920 -> 29:15.080] Ie, roedd fy nesaf i'r ymgeisydd ysgol yma, [29:15.080 -> 29:16.240] ac roeddwn i'n dod yn ddiweddarach [29:16.240 -> 29:17.520] ac nid ysgol. [29:17.520 -> 29:18.720] Roeddwn i bob amser yn ddifro'n ei hunain, [29:18.720 -> 29:19.760] ac dwi'n gwybod beth, [29:19.760 -> 29:21.320] heb ddifrifio'r pethau [29:21.320 -> 29:23.720] sydd wedi digwydd yn fy nhyrfa. [29:23.720 -> 29:29.040] Ac mae fy mab a fy mam yn ddifrifo'n eich gwirionedd, ond nid oeddent wedi bod yn ymwneud â fy nhyrfa. justifying all the things that have happened in my career. And not my dad and mom are great parents, but they've never been involved in my [29:29.040 -> 29:29.520] career. [29:29.560 -> 29:32.600] You know, I could probably count on my hand how many times they've watched me [29:32.600 -> 29:33.240] play live. [29:33.680 -> 29:38.720] So I actually went through, you know, at 16 years old at 17, I joined an academy. [29:39.040 -> 29:43.880] I went in like squatted in like university halls at 17. [29:44.480 -> 29:47.400] I found my way for a couple of years in Worcester. [29:47.400 -> 29:49.480] I signed myself to Northampton. [29:49.480 -> 29:51.920] I kind of did my early deals by myself. [29:51.920 -> 29:54.320] And then 15 years later, I forged a career. [29:54.320 -> 29:55.520] So everything that happened along the way, [29:55.520 -> 29:58.000] I never had like my parents involved. [29:58.000 -> 29:59.960] They had no idea about what money I earned. [29:59.960 -> 30:01.720] I was just overseas playing rugby. [30:01.720 -> 30:04.720] So I reckon a lot of the, [30:04.720 -> 30:07.000] if we're delving into why I've got in trouble, maybe I was just finding my own way Roeddwn i'n chwarae ymlaen yn chwarae rygbi. Felly rwy'n credu bod y rhan fwyaf o'r... os ydym yn ymweld â'r sy'n i mi gael llawer o broblemau, [30:07.000 -> 30:09.000] efallai roeddwn i'n darganfod fy mod i'n ffyny [30:09.000 -> 30:11.000] a gweithio'n fawr i fy hun. [30:11.000 -> 30:14.000] Ond mae'n deimlo bod gennych y strych arall [30:14.000 -> 30:16.000] sydd wedi'i ddod o'r iaith iawn i chi o'r oed ymlaen. [30:16.000 -> 30:18.000] Ac mae'n ddiddorol y rôl o'r fentor [30:18.000 -> 30:20.000] a ddangosodd Eddie yn ystod [30:20.000 -> 30:22.000] i'w cymryd i'r lefel arall. [30:22.000 -> 30:27.400] Ie, rwy'n credu career as well, but then more around probably [30:27.400 -> 30:31.040] creating like more of a family environment for [30:31.040 -> 30:33.600] me at 18, 19 when I didn't have that. [30:34.080 -> 30:35.640] You know, I'm thinking about all the Christmases [30:35.640 -> 30:37.840] that, you know, my academy counterparts would go [30:37.840 -> 30:40.520] home to families and I was just by myself. [30:40.600 -> 30:42.240] And on Christmas day. [30:42.480 -> 30:42.840] Yeah. [30:42.880 -> 30:45.840] I remember reading like you know those things that [30:45.840 -> 30:48.680] you hear about like oh you're gonna train Christmas Day because what's your [30:48.680 -> 30:52.480] opposition doing so I did all that sort of all that sort of crap you know you [30:52.480 -> 30:56.960] tag onto Christmases with people and you'd make it work but yeah I just found [30:56.960 -> 31:00.360] my own way. Is that the way you wanted it or was it just that's the sort of parents [31:00.360 -> 31:03.480] that you had they were just letting you go off into the world? Yeah they let me do my [31:03.480 -> 31:09.000] thing but it's funny now so we see all these young players now, their dads are involved with contract negotiations. [31:09.000 -> 31:11.400] They want to know this, they debrief their games. [31:11.440 -> 31:14.880] You know, you don't want that from my parents and I never got it, which I'm thankful for. [31:15.200 -> 31:23.520] But I'm just so happy when I look back at it, the ups and downs, the undulating kind of nature of my career has just taught me that, you know, shit's going to happen. [31:24.040 -> 31:25.920] Good things happen, bad things happen. [31:25.920 -> 31:27.520] It's literally a moment, [31:27.520 -> 31:29.960] enjoy the good ones when they happen. [31:29.960 -> 31:33.360] The bad ones will happen, they won't last, you know, [31:33.360 -> 31:35.760] and that there'll be another moment just around the corner. [31:35.760 -> 31:37.880] So even when you get a moment like being omitted [31:37.880 -> 31:42.400] from Stuart Lancaster's World Cup squad for 2015, [31:42.400 -> 31:43.560] how do you deal with that? [31:43.560 -> 31:44.400] Do you go to anyone? [31:44.400 -> 31:45.680] Do you internalise it and deal with it yourself? Do you go to anyone? Do you internalise it [31:45.680 -> 31:50.200] and deal with it yourself? Do you do what you did when you got the result of your bands [31:50.200 -> 31:54.160] and you immediately take a positive look at it and go, right, you watch, I'll get my way [31:54.160 -> 31:55.160] back in? [31:55.160 -> 31:58.640] That one was slightly different because it was a week I kind of thought I could train, [31:58.640 -> 32:02.720] I'd get back, Stuart would take me to the World Cup, but he didn't. But then at the [32:02.720 -> 32:05.000] time, Silver Linings, I had gen i fy nhrefn. [32:05.000 -> 32:07.000] A ydych chi'r fath? [32:07.000 -> 32:08.000] Ie. [32:08.000 -> 32:09.000] Felly rydych chi'r nhrefn, [32:09.000 -> 32:10.000] ac nid oes peth arall. [32:10.000 -> 32:12.000] Iawn, rydw i'n chwarae ar y Cwp Gweinidog. [32:12.000 -> 32:13.000] Na, [32:13.000 -> 32:14.000] dydw i ddim [32:14.000 -> 32:16.000] yn ymddangos. [32:16.000 -> 32:18.000] Pan roeddech chi'n sôn yno am fod yn fath, [32:18.000 -> 32:20.000] rydych chi wedi cael [32:20.000 -> 32:21.000] ychydig o ddangosol [32:21.000 -> 32:22.000] yn eich hun [32:22.000 -> 32:23.000] o ran mynd allan [32:23.000 -> 32:24.000] ar 15 [32:24.000 -> 32:26.200] a'r pethau rydyn ni'n siarad yn ychydig. [32:26.200 -> 32:31.200] Yn ogystal â'r mentoreau gallan fwyaf sy'n eich hyrwyddo i lefel arall. [32:31.200 -> 32:33.000] Os oes unrhyw un sy'n clywed y podcast hon, [32:33.000 -> 32:38.400] mae pobl yn gwneud dysgu a gallant eu gwneud ar eu plant. [32:38.400 -> 32:40.200] Sut ydych chi'n mynd i'w wneud? [32:40.200 -> 32:43.200] Mae'n anodd pan mae'n plant eich hun. [32:43.200 -> 32:50.400] Os unrhyw beth, rwy'n eisiau rhoi'r platfform lle gall fy mhlenthau, I just want to provide a platform where my children can, one, focus on school because I never focused on school. [32:50.400 -> 32:50.680] Right. [32:51.360 -> 32:58.160] But secondly, provide the platform for my kids to play whatever sport they want and let them find their own way doing it. [32:58.880 -> 33:02.960] Not force them to play a game that they don't want to play. [33:03.320 -> 33:05.720] But ultimately, if they commit to something, they're going to have to commit to it. They can't just go, oh, it's raining. I don't want to play. But ultimately, if they commit to something, [33:05.720 -> 33:06.840] they're going to have to commit to it. [33:06.840 -> 33:08.040] They can't just go, [33:08.040 -> 33:09.440] oh, it's raining, I don't want to go. [33:09.440 -> 33:10.840] It's boring, I don't like it. [33:10.840 -> 33:12.240] They'll have to see the season through. [33:12.240 -> 33:14.520] And it's not really good advice for parents, [33:14.520 -> 33:16.760] but my daughter's only four. [33:16.760 -> 33:19.240] So we haven't really reached that. [33:19.240 -> 33:20.040] Yeah, yeah, of course. [33:20.040 -> 33:20.920] That moment yet. [33:20.920 -> 33:23.400] So I probably need to ask you, [33:23.400 -> 33:24.480] what do you do? [33:24.480 -> 33:26.760] Because I'm a young parent, you know. [33:26.760 -> 33:27.760] What about failure? [33:27.760 -> 33:29.720] What's your take on failure in your kids? [33:29.720 -> 33:33.840] Because we all try and create a world where our kids don't fail, because we don't want [33:33.840 -> 33:34.840] to see them fail. [33:34.840 -> 33:35.840] Good, right? [33:35.840 -> 33:37.480] I had this conversation with my wife the other day. [33:37.480 -> 33:41.080] I was like, so when you have kids, you want them to have a really nice world. [33:41.080 -> 33:45.640] But I was thinking, because I've talked about my career and why I think [33:45.640 -> 33:51.160] it's kind of forged me who I am, it's because I'd struggle. You know, I didn't have [33:51.160 -> 33:56.560] money at a young age, you know, when my Academy counterparts did. So I found a [33:56.560 -> 34:00.600] way to make money and I found a way to train harder, to earn more, and that's it. [34:00.600 -> 34:07.520] I was thinking, my daughter, and I've got another one on the way, how do you create Ac rwy'n meddwl o fy mhrof, ac mae gen i un ar y ffordd. Sut yw'n creu anrheg i'ch plant [34:07.520 -> 34:09.440] heb eu gwneud yn anrheg? [34:09.440 -> 34:11.040] Dydw i ddim yn gwybod'r cynnydd i hynny. [34:11.040 -> 34:12.640] Ond rwy'n cyd-dod â'r hyn rydych chi'n ei ddweud. [34:12.640 -> 34:15.360] Rwy'n credu bod anrheg a chymorth [34:15.360 -> 34:18.800] yn ymwneud â'r chwaraewyr chwarae. [34:18.800 -> 34:20.720] Mae'n ymwneud â'r meddwl o fwyth, yw'n i? [34:20.720 -> 34:23.280] Mae'r plant sy'n cael eu ddweud eu bod yn ddaethu [34:23.280 -> 34:24.840] byddant yn ychydig ar eu ddaethau [34:24.840 -> 34:48.560] nes i'w gynnal ymdrechion a'u gweud bod y blaenau sy'n cael eu ddysgu eu bod yn ddifrifol yn ychydig o'u talent yn ychydig o'u talent yn ychydig o'u talent yn ychydig o'u talent yn ychydig o'u talent yn ychydig o'u talent yn ychydig o'u talent yn ychydig o'u talent yn ychydig o'u talent yn ychydig o'u talent yn ychydig o'u talent yn ychydig o'u talent yn ychydig o'u talent yn ychydig o'u talent yn ychydig o'u talent yn ychydig o'u talent yn ychydig o'u talent yn ychydig o'u talent yn ychydig o'u talent yn ychydig o'u talent yn ychydig o'u talent yn ychydig o'u talent yn ychydig o'u talent yn ychydig o'u talent yn ychydig o'u talent yn ychydig o'u talent yn ychydig o'u talent yn ychydig o'u talent yn ychydig o'u talent yn ychydig o'u talent yn ychydig o'u talent yn ychydig o'u talent in the talent in the talent in the talent in the talent in the talent in the talent in the talent in the talent in the talent in the talent in the talent in the talent in the talent in the talent in the talent in the talent in the talent in the talent in the talent in the talent in the talent in the talent in the talent in the talent in the talent in the talent in the talent in the talent in the talent in the talent in the talent in the talent in the talent in the talent in the talent in the talent in the talent in the talent in the talent in the talent in the talent in the Rugby's a really good example of what you're talking about there. I'd say there's probably two or three kids in a rugby team that are like [34:48.560 -> 34:54.120] talented, out and out athletes don't really need to watch diet, don't need [34:54.120 -> 34:57.400] to train that well, they're fast, they're strong, they're explosive, they're [34:57.400 -> 34:59.200] skillful, they get away with it. [34:59.480 -> 35:04.160] I'd say the majority of rugby players are probably more of what you're [35:04.160 -> 35:06.920] talking about, that growth mindset about working harder than their [35:06.920 -> 35:09.800] opposite, because they're not talented or [35:09.840 -> 35:11.680] athletically gifted, they work harder. [35:11.880 -> 35:13.200] And I would say the majority of rugby [35:13.200 -> 35:15.120] players are that guy, which is hard to [35:15.120 -> 35:16.600] understand because when you watch at the [35:16.600 -> 35:18.120] weekend, you're like, these guys are [35:18.120 -> 35:18.600] amazing. [35:19.040 -> 35:20.120] You know, everyone playing international [35:20.120 -> 35:23.000] or club rugby, you think amazing athletes, [35:23.320 -> 35:25.720] but there's a reason why, yeah, they look that way [35:25.720 -> 35:27.680] and the way that they execute what they do, [35:27.680 -> 35:29.360] because they work incredibly hard. [35:29.360 -> 35:30.680] The average member of the public, [35:30.680 -> 35:32.560] and I would include myself and Damien in this, by the way, [35:32.560 -> 35:33.600] because we haven't done what you've done [35:33.600 -> 35:34.720] in a compete at an elite level, [35:34.720 -> 35:36.080] when they say things like, [35:37.320 -> 35:40.280] Wayne Rooney's a bit lazy, you know what I mean? [35:40.280 -> 35:42.920] Those members of the public could never get [35:42.920 -> 35:44.480] to where he has to get to in the gym. [35:44.480 -> 35:50.820] 99% of people don't see the struggle struggle and maybe that's how it should be. Why should they see your struggle? [35:50.820 -> 35:53.760] They should just see the joy on a Saturday that you know winning a game [35:54.120 -> 35:59.080] But it is a frustration of mine that people don't see the hard yards that go into success [35:59.080 -> 36:02.680] I don't know how we I don't know how we change that mindset for people. I love this [36:02.680 -> 36:04.440] I went to watch Aston Villa the other day [36:04.440 -> 36:05.880] I don't watch much football, [36:05.880 -> 36:08.520] but I'm invited to the whole end at Villa. [36:08.520 -> 36:11.360] And I stood in there, I had to stand as well. [36:11.360 -> 36:12.840] We had a seat, I could have sat in it, [36:12.840 -> 36:15.160] but you don't sit in the whole end, you got to stand. [36:15.160 -> 36:17.120] So I was standing there and I was kind of [36:17.120 -> 36:18.600] mumbling away to the songs. [36:18.600 -> 36:20.520] And there's people screaming at the players. [36:20.520 -> 36:22.880] And I was like, oh, these dickheads. [36:22.880 -> 36:26.800] Like, I was still thinking like the guy on the field, I'm like, you just [36:26.800 -> 36:30.360] do not understand even like running [36:30.360 -> 36:32.000] 20 meters, then sprinting back. [36:32.040 -> 36:33.760] What that guy has just gone through [36:34.400 -> 36:36.200] the psyche that that player has got [36:36.200 -> 36:37.560] to do that, but it wasn't quite good [36:37.560 -> 36:39.240] enough because he's up against another [36:39.240 -> 36:41.760] guy that's doing it just the same. [36:42.080 -> 36:43.400] And I think what you just said about [36:43.400 -> 36:45.360] Wayne Rooney, it's the Monday [36:46.000 -> 36:52.720] in rugby, Monday to, or Sunday to Friday work that no one sees. The mental attrition to get up [36:53.600 -> 36:58.720] on a Monday morning when you've got to walk sideways or almost crawl out of your bed, [36:58.720 -> 37:07.240] downstairs, get to training, do things that hurt, stretch, mobilize, ice bath, get yourself up for a [37:07.240 -> 37:11.040] day's training and get out on the field and go and do it. It's like that mental [37:11.040 -> 37:15.080] capacity to do it and if it was easy people wouldn't be standing in the whole [37:15.080 -> 37:20.280] end, they'd be on the field playing. This is something that I've spoken to [37:20.280 -> 37:24.560] athletes around this and they call it the Dunning-Kruger law named after a [37:24.560 -> 37:29.040] couple of economists so it reasons that if you're smart at something you're rwy'n gofyn i athleïoedd y tu hwn, ac maen nhw'n ei ddweud y ddynion Cruger, yn enwedig ar gyfer nifer o economi. Felly mae'n rhaid i chi ddweud, os ydych chi'n ddymu ar rhywbeth, ydych chi'n ddymu [37:29.040 -> 37:33.520] i gyd i gyd gwybod pam rydych chi'n ddymu arno. Ond ar y fflip, os ydych chi'n ddymu, rydych chi'n [37:33.520 -> 37:37.600] ddymu iawn i gyd i gwybod pa mor ddymu rydych chi. Felly rydw i'n dweud yw, pan mae rhywun [37:37.600 -> 37:41.600] yn rhoi'r gosod cymdeithasol i chi, a dweud, roeddwn i'n gallu chwarae'n well na chi, [37:42.160 -> 37:46.920] dyna'r ddynion Cruger, oherwydd maen nhw'n ddymu iawn i gyd i gwybod I could have played better than you. That was the Dunning-Kruger law, because they're too stupid to realize the sacrifice, [37:46.920 -> 37:50.640] the Sunday to Friday cycle. [37:50.640 -> 37:52.080] So they just see the end result [37:52.080 -> 37:54.080] and assume that I could do better than that. [37:54.080 -> 37:54.920] 100%. [37:54.920 -> 37:56.480] But then you get the old fan that thinks the other way [37:56.480 -> 37:58.080] and you think, that guy, you're onto it. [37:58.080 -> 38:01.360] You're switched on, you empathize with me, you know. [38:01.360 -> 38:03.520] Sure, but then when you speak to athletes, [38:03.520 -> 38:08.800] this is where the stuff around mentorship fascinates me, because when you speak to athletes and say, o'n i, rydych chi'n gwybod. Yn siŵr, ond pan ydych chi'n siarad â'r athleïau, dyma lle mae'r peth o ran mentorsiad yn fy ffasanodd, oherwydd pan ydych chi'n siarad â'r athleïau a dweud, [38:08.800 -> 38:13.440] pa oedd y cwpl o bobl, pan ydyn nhw'n siarad â chi a dweud, Dylan, dyna ddim yn [38:13.440 -> 38:16.680] dda o hyd, y byddwch chi'n gwybod yn swisio ac yn clywed. [38:16.680 -> 38:20.200] Ac mae llawer o athleïau rydw i'n siarad âd-dweud, gallai eu tuannau, [38:20.200 -> 38:22.400] gallai fod yn fwrw, gallai fod yn coach, [38:22.400 -> 38:25.080] gallai fod yn teimlowr y gallent ei hymdrechu. Pa oedd y pwynt o bobl y byddwch chi'n dweud pan ydyn nhw'n rhoi'r It might be a partner, it might be a coach, it might be a teammate that they respect. [38:25.080 -> 38:29.760] Who would you say are the five people that when they give you feedback, you do sit up [38:29.760 -> 38:32.280] and pay attention? [38:32.280 -> 38:33.280] Any coach. [38:33.280 -> 38:35.280] So it's probably more than five. [38:35.280 -> 38:38.400] But someone always said to me, be coachable. [38:38.400 -> 38:40.740] Being a good professional is be coachable. [38:40.740 -> 38:45.720] So nod your head, say, yeah, work it out in your own head whether what they're saying [38:45.720 -> 38:48.960] is good and how you can interpret that to your game. [38:48.960 -> 38:52.000] I think that's being open to feedback and criticism. [38:52.000 -> 38:56.720] That's what rugby's taught me, to have direct conversations and be open. [38:56.720 -> 39:02.040] Names Eddie Jones, he'd call it straight, you know, that's not good enough or that wasn't [39:02.040 -> 39:03.520] good enough. [39:03.520 -> 39:05.160] And then that afternoon you go and train well, then straight away afterwards, well done today. So no grudges held. mae'r rugby niddi gauda, niddi gauda. A'r tegawai, ti'n teimeo'n iau, [39:05.160 -> 39:06.600] a'r tegawai, ti'n teimeo'n iau, [39:06.600 -> 39:07.440] teimeo'n iau, [39:07.440 -> 39:08.280] so no grudges held, [39:08.280 -> 39:09.160] it was just direct, [39:09.160 -> 39:10.600] it is what it is, [39:10.600 -> 39:12.840] and you appreciate that as a player. [39:12.840 -> 39:14.640] No kind of beating around the bush. [39:16.280 -> 39:18.440] My parents never told me they were disappointed, [39:18.440 -> 39:21.160] so I don't think my parents had nothing to do [39:21.160 -> 39:22.120] with my rugby, really. [39:22.120 -> 39:24.680] They were just a support network. [39:24.680 -> 39:30.800] How did they provide support for you if they weren't involved in sort of your day-to-day life by being just that right? [39:31.200 -> 39:35.960] Just being able to call them because a lot of people would think why why don't my parents give a shit about my life? [39:35.960 -> 39:42.320] You know, I need some support. I need you to have an opinion. It's interesting that you're the support you needed was them not [39:42.880 -> 39:45.220] Knowing about what was going on. That's interesting [39:45.220 -> 39:50.780] No, I just I enjoyed them for what they were. They were just my parents and didn't they offered [39:52.300 -> 39:57.600] Yeah, 100% you know, I'm not Dylan Hartley my parents don't love me that's why I've done everything I've done [39:58.120 -> 40:01.520] It's anything that's the opposite though. They're great parents later in life [40:02.280 -> 40:07.080] Your wife so my girlfriend now, is my wife that, it's [40:07.080 -> 40:11.600] funny how your support network and everyone talks about their why, why they [40:11.600 -> 40:15.480] play the game, what motivates them, you're obviously familiar with that. When [40:15.480 -> 40:20.360] you're young, I was just on like this snowball that was, it was exciting, I [40:20.360 -> 40:23.920] wanted to be a professional rugby player, I wanted to play on TV, I wanted to play [40:23.920 -> 40:25.520] at big stadiums and then the byproduct of that, you want to have a professional rugby player. I wanted to play on TV. I wanted to play at big stadiums. [40:25.520 -> 40:28.280] And then the byproduct of that, you want to have a nicer house. [40:28.280 -> 40:31.040] You want to move out of your academy digs and get your own house. [40:31.040 -> 40:36.520] I wanted to stop riding the muddy fox with the shit flat tire and get a car. [40:36.520 -> 40:38.080] You know, these sorts of things. [40:38.080 -> 40:42.600] So my reasons when I was younger to play were obvious. [40:42.600 -> 40:45.480] And then financial, you know, all that sort of comes into it. [40:45.480 -> 40:48.200] And then when you're 33, you're like, [40:48.200 -> 40:50.360] you know, why do I enjoy playing? [40:50.360 -> 40:53.840] Why do I enjoy being in pain every day? [40:53.840 -> 40:54.920] And I'm not a special case. [40:54.920 -> 40:57.440] I think it's everyone that plays rugby, [40:57.440 -> 40:59.920] especially lives in pain, but it's just normal. [40:59.920 -> 41:01.480] So you just get on with it. [41:01.480 -> 41:06.520] But my reason, my motivation was my wife, my daughter. [41:07.080 -> 41:08.800] It became financial. [41:08.800 -> 41:12.440] It became almost like a legacy type thing. [41:12.440 -> 41:15.240] My daughter got to an age where she understood [41:15.240 -> 41:18.000] what I was doing and playing for England [41:18.000 -> 41:20.160] and playing for Northampton was great. [41:20.160 -> 41:22.000] So my reasons changed. [41:22.000 -> 41:23.500] And you asked me the five people. [41:23.500 -> 41:27.000] So my coaches, Eddie Jones in particular, any coach. [41:27.000 -> 41:32.500] My parents were always really level-headed and probably my wife towards the end of it. [41:32.500 -> 41:40.000] Because when you transition into retirement, that is where that support network becomes, you know, your coaches aren't there anymore. [41:40.000 -> 41:44.500] You're left with your parents and my wife and my kids. [41:44.500 -> 41:46.480] Because you strip out the coach, the rugby side of it, [41:46.480 -> 41:47.760] it's like, what have you got? [41:47.760 -> 41:50.000] You sit now as a retired rugby player. [41:50.000 -> 41:53.040] Do you feel like your career is over? [41:53.040 -> 41:55.760] Do you feel like a sort of a civilian as you describe it? [41:55.760 -> 41:58.080] Or do you still feel like a rugby player in your head? [41:58.080 -> 42:00.160] No, I feel like a civilian. [42:00.160 -> 42:01.040] This is a good thing. [42:01.040 -> 42:06.280] This is what the bans, the, the bands, the injuries, [42:06.280 -> 42:08.320] the non selections kind of taught me is that [42:08.320 -> 42:09.480] you don't matter. [42:09.480 -> 42:13.760] Like the game's going to carry on with or without you. [42:13.760 -> 42:17.120] The big machine keeps moving and you're just a part of it, [42:17.120 -> 42:19.560] a small cog in that when you get your opportunity. [42:19.560 -> 42:23.960] So all those sort of setbacks made me think that rugby [42:23.960 -> 42:25.000] will not define me [42:25.000 -> 42:30.000] because it hasn't just been like that, hasn't been a smooth kind of ride for me, [42:30.000 -> 42:36.000] it's been rocky. So I think all those setbacks kind of almost prepared me for retirement. [42:36.000 -> 42:40.000] So when it happened, it was just another challenge, just like coming back from a ban, [42:40.000 -> 42:44.000] I'm going to sit down, make a plan about where I want to go next. [42:44.000 -> 42:51.000] So if anything, the small lessons with all the disciplinaries kind of prepared me for civilian life. [42:51.000 -> 42:56.000] Where will you go next, and what's the... like, do you think you'll still be involved in rugby? [42:56.000 -> 43:02.000] I do enjoy talking about what we're talking about now, and like I said, later in my career, [43:02.000 -> 43:06.960] I tapped more into the growth mindset side of things and [43:06.960 -> 43:08.360] the mentoring side of things. [43:08.360 -> 43:13.800] I still work with a couple of the guys just on throwing technique and mindset. [43:13.800 -> 43:18.560] Now at Northampton I enjoy that but I'm undecided about what will be next. [43:18.560 -> 43:27.280] I need time to just re-evaluate and I'm not saying no to rugby or coaching or something within rugby long-term just [43:27.760 -> 43:29.760] immediately I just need a bit of [43:29.920 -> 43:30.800] cut ties [43:30.800 -> 43:33.520] We've got a few quick fire questions. Do you want to use your phone at this point? [43:33.520 -> 43:36.820] Are you just happy to crack on I reckon I've got it. So if I kick off then Dylan [43:36.820 -> 43:42.600] What what would you say are the three non-negotiable behaviors that you and the people around you must buy into? [43:42.840 -> 43:46.200] I'm not saying I'm a professional or a pro on this. [43:46.200 -> 43:47.480] It's what worked for me. [43:47.480 -> 43:48.320] Sure. [43:48.320 -> 43:50.440] I make that very clear to our listeners. [43:50.440 -> 43:54.560] The first thing is surround yourself with people [43:54.560 -> 43:58.360] that think that way, because you cannot be, [43:58.360 -> 43:59.720] I couldn't have been high performance [43:59.720 -> 44:02.440] if the environment's not high performance. [44:02.440 -> 44:05.880] And to get there, use people to help you be a [44:05.880 -> 44:09.240] high performer because that's what they're good at you know I was good at [44:09.240 -> 44:13.920] what kind of good at playing rugby but you know the guy who's done so many [44:13.920 -> 44:18.000] years at university to understand strength and conditioning use that guy [44:18.000 -> 44:23.320] and it wasn't till I was about 31 32 33 I realized that. What advice would you [44:23.320 -> 44:25.720] give to a teenage Dylan who was just starting his career [44:26.320 -> 44:30.640] Nothing, I wouldn't tell him anything. So maybe there's a sign of what sort of dad I'm gonna be work it out yourself [44:31.240 -> 44:37.020] Because the it's the struggles. It's the all the little things that that kind of form you as a person [44:38.560 -> 44:42.720] Obviously be there as a shoulder or an air and guide when [44:43.700 -> 44:47.280] the question is asked maybe and try and guide them but [44:47.280 -> 44:51.680] with my coaching at the moment I work with a couple of hookers I see things [44:51.680 -> 44:55.920] that they're doing that means they're not going to throw the ball well and I [44:55.920 -> 44:59.320] don't tell them what it is I'm saying are you thinking about what you're doing [44:59.320 -> 45:03.280] tell me what you're thinking so kind of coach themselves to try and guide them [45:03.280 -> 45:05.900] so I don't know what I'd say to a 16 year old Dylan. [45:06.100 -> 45:07.000] So next question then, [45:07.000 -> 45:09.600] how did you react to your greatest failure? [45:09.900 -> 45:10.200] I mean, [45:10.200 -> 45:11.800] it depends what you perceive failure. [45:12.200 -> 45:12.800] What do you perceive as yours? [45:12.800 -> 45:13.700] They're all good things. [45:14.800 -> 45:15.800] You think failure is good? [45:16.200 -> 45:16.500] Yeah, [45:16.500 -> 45:17.300] 100%. [45:17.700 -> 45:18.200] It's again, [45:18.200 -> 45:18.800] it's struggle. [45:18.800 -> 45:21.700] It's and it's easy to say now I've been through it, [45:21.900 -> 45:25.800] but I think failure is ultimately a good thing as long as you don't let it define you. [45:26.060 -> 45:28.060] So how important is legacy to you then? [45:28.820 -> 45:33.980] It was, I wanted to win the World Cup and my little girl and my sons have been like, your dad did that. [45:34.340 -> 45:39.540] But ultimately when they're old enough to Google me, they'll probably just find out all the bad shit I did. [45:39.540 -> 45:50.320] But rugby, I never wanted to define me, but for whatever reason I've done it for the last 16, 17 years so you know it has defined me it is it is my life to this [45:50.320 -> 45:55.120] point so I need to basically you know my legacy will be what sort of father I am [45:55.120 -> 45:59.800] to my kids and husband and husband and just in case Mrs. Hartley's listening. [45:59.800 -> 46:07.460] Finally the one golden rule that you have to live a high-performance life the one thing that you put above all other things [46:07.460 -> 46:12.800] I think your anchor point so people call it their why or their motivation? I [46:13.840 -> 46:17.960] Think you always need that anchor point on what's going to get you out of bed [46:18.080 -> 46:24.840] What is going to make you do the extra work? What is going to make you eat the certain thing? What is going to make you? [46:24.500 -> 46:29.980] the extra work, what is gonna make you eat the certain thing, what is gonna make you deal with the criticism and if you read the media, the narrative in the [46:29.980 -> 46:34.700] media, what's gonna make you see above that and keep you pushing forward and I [46:34.700 -> 46:39.380] told you about my kind of reasons, my motivations, my why's, you know, early on [46:39.380 -> 46:43.260] didn't really have one, it was pretty selfish, it was just me, me, me and then [46:43.260 -> 46:47.360] towards the end of my career it was for my family that kind of kept me pushing [46:47.360 -> 46:49.200] because everyone talks about sacrifice. [46:49.200 -> 46:52.000] I never really sacrificed going away. [46:52.000 -> 46:54.480] It was a choice for me to go away and to work [46:54.480 -> 46:57.920] and go away into this environment that was, [46:57.920 -> 47:00.840] and you know, mental attrition [47:00.840 -> 47:03.720] and physical kind of work that you went through [47:03.720 -> 47:05.280] was a hard place to go, [47:05.280 -> 47:07.920] hard place to go and leave your family behind. [47:07.920 -> 47:09.960] But I thought if I go and do that [47:09.960 -> 47:12.600] and always reference back to why I hurt [47:12.600 -> 47:15.240] and why I'm tired and why I'm working [47:15.240 -> 47:18.240] from six in the morning to 10 at night, [47:18.240 -> 47:20.440] it's so I can leave a legacy for my kids [47:20.440 -> 47:23.840] and financially provide for my family. [47:23.840 -> 47:28.480] And then kind of selfishly, I wanted to basically [47:28.480 -> 47:30.880] make the most of an opportunity for myself. [47:30.880 -> 47:33.100] Really interesting to sit and sort of break it all down. [47:33.100 -> 47:34.080] Cause I guess when you're in it, [47:34.080 -> 47:35.720] you just plow on through your career. [47:35.720 -> 47:36.560] It just kind of happens. [47:36.560 -> 47:38.120] And suddenly you get to your mid thirties [47:38.120 -> 47:40.280] and you've got a knee injury and you're reflecting. [47:40.280 -> 47:41.960] So thanks for doing that with us. [47:41.960 -> 47:42.800] Really appreciate it. [47:42.800 -> 47:43.800] Off to the glue factory, mate. [47:43.800 -> 47:44.800] That's what happens. [47:44.800 -> 47:46.000] That's the cycle. For us all. Thanks digwydd. Dyna'r cyfle. [47:46.000 -> 47:48.000] I'n hollol. Diolch yn fawr. [47:48.000 -> 47:50.000] Na, diolch amdano. [47:50.000 -> 47:52.000] Damien. [47:52.000 -> 47:53.000] Jake. [47:53.000 -> 47:55.000] Oedd e'n ffyrdd o'r gwaith. [47:55.000 -> 47:58.000] Roedd e'n ddiddorol ddiddorol, oedd e? [47:58.000 -> 48:00.000] Roedd e'n fy nghymryd i mi, wrth fy nghyfathur, [48:00.000 -> 48:02.000] y bydd y team New Zealand Rugby, [48:02.000 -> 48:04.000] a gwybod, Dylan, yn amlwg, [48:04.000 -> 48:05.000] o'r ffordd yma, yw eu bod yn dweud y gallwch chi rhoi'r cyfathrebu i'r gynulliad, nid i'r New Zealand Rugby Team, ac rwy'n gwybod bod Dylan yn dod o'rno, [48:05.000 -> 48:08.000] mae'r rhai yn dweud bod y rhai yn rhoi cymorth i'r gynnyrch, nid i'r ôl. [48:08.000 -> 48:11.000] Felly rydyn ni'n dweud i bobl, yn ystod y gwirionedd, beth ydych chi'n ei feddwl odyn nhw, [48:11.000 -> 48:14.000] sut rydyn ni'n eu gweld nhw, ac rwy'n credu ei fod yn un o'r gyrfau [48:14.000 -> 48:17.000] sy'n cynnig ymchwil eu hunain, ymchwil eu hunain. [48:17.000 -> 48:20.000] Rwy'n credu, pan rydych chi'n clywed iddi ddweud amdano, [48:20.000 -> 48:23.000] ar y cyfieithasau cymdeithasol, dynnu'r cwmni, byddwn i'n dweud, rydw i eisiau ei weld. [48:23.000 -> 48:26.000] Ac pan rydych chi'n sôn amdano, y cyfansoddwyd i'w ddod i'r cymdeithasau cymdeithasol, a'i ddweud, a'i ddweud, [48:26.000 -> 48:28.000] a'i ddweud, [48:28.000 -> 48:30.000] a'i ddweud, [48:30.000 -> 48:32.000] a'i ddweud, [48:32.000 -> 48:34.000] a'i ddweud, [48:34.000 -> 48:36.000] a'i ddweud, [48:36.000 -> 48:38.000] a'i ddweud, [48:38.000 -> 48:40.000] a'i ddweud, [48:40.000 -> 48:42.000] a'i ddweud, [48:42.000 -> 48:44.000] a'i ddweud, [48:44.000 -> 48:45.000] a'i ddweud, a'i y dweud oedd, pan oedd wedi'i ddifrifo am ochr wythnos a'i gynllunio ar y cyfnod o ochr wythnos, [48:45.000 -> 48:50.000] gweld hi'n heriol i'w ddifrifio i'r ffordd y gallai'i ddweud o'n lefel gwahanol. [48:50.000 -> 48:54.000] Rwy'n credu ei bod yn dynol yn ddweud ei bywyd, yn ei gynllunio ar ei hun. [48:54.000 -> 48:59.000] Rwy'n hoffi'r ffaith bod e wedi'i ddewis ei ffynas i'w legau a'r pwysig oedd ei gilydd, [48:59.000 -> 49:02.000] oherwydd mae'n rhaid iddo feddwl hynny, dydynt? [49:02.000 -> 49:06.000] Mae'r rygbi wedi'i gael, mae'r rygbi wedi'i ddod allan ar gyfer hynny, hebddwch hi, ar gyfer yr Uwch Ddwylo Cymru a'r Northampton, [49:06.000 -> 49:08.000] a'r Llyfrgell. [49:08.000 -> 49:10.000] Felly mae'n rhaid iddo fod am ffamiliau ar gyfer hyn nawr. [49:10.000 -> 49:12.000] Ie, rwy'n troi'r cyd-dod o'r ffordd [49:12.000 -> 49:14.000] yn ddiddorol pan yw'n siarad am sut [49:14.000 -> 49:16.000] byddwn ni'n defnyddio'r periodau hyn, [49:16.000 -> 49:18.000] y ddwy flynedd o baniau [49:18.000 -> 49:20.000] a'r cysylltiadau i ddechrau [49:20.000 -> 49:22.000] gwneud y transiwn hwnnw [49:22.000 -> 49:24.000] a dysgu bod yn gyfraith [49:24.000 -> 49:25.440] nid yw eich gyrfa chi sy'n eich ddefnyddio chi, [49:25.440 -> 49:28.640] mae'n chi fel person a'r ffordd y gallwch chi ei wneud eich hun [49:28.640 -> 49:31.520] sy'n mynd i fod yn y llygad rydych chi'n ei leihau. [49:31.520 -> 49:36.400] Ac yn dod ati o'ch perspectif sefydliadol sefydliadol, [49:36.400 -> 49:40.640] a ydych chi'n meddwl bod y rhanfodau yn eithaf angen i'w gael [49:40.640 -> 49:42.960] i'r pwynt o gynhyrchion cyhoeddiant? [49:42.960 -> 49:49.040] A oeddwch chi'n mynd i rhoi'r risg o fod yn myn mynd i gael y fflashau a'r cyfnodau o ddifrifol. [49:49.040 -> 49:53.040] Dwi ddim yn siŵr ei fod yn anodd i gyfrifoldeb. [49:53.040 -> 49:56.080] Rwy'n credu y gallwch chi gael hynny'n ddiweddar [49:56.080 -> 49:59.520] heb mynd i'r ffwrdd fel yr oedd e'n gwneud. [49:59.520 -> 50:02.560] Ond rwy'n teimlo bod hynny'n ei fod. [50:02.560 -> 50:05.400] Roedd e'n fyny sy'n cymryd ei hun i'r cyfrofoldeb ac mae bob amwn yn ei bod. Roedd y bobl sy'n ymdrech i'r ddifrifoedd [50:05.400 -> 50:08.640] ac mae bob amser yn y ddifroedd gwach i fynd i'r ddifroedd [50:08.640 -> 50:11.000] lle weithiau oedd yn croesawu'r rhan. [50:11.000 -> 50:13.280] Roedd yn ddiddorol fod yn ymdrech i'w ddweud [50:13.280 -> 50:15.880] nad oedd wedi gwneud yr un peth yn ddwywedd. [50:15.880 -> 50:20.080] Ond roedd y bobl sy'n y ddifroedd [50:20.080 -> 50:22.800] a'r un peth sy'n ymdrech i fynd i'r ddifroedd [50:22.800 -> 50:25.880] a gallai'n gweithio i'r ddifroedd. Ac rwy'n credu os oes un cyd-dod o'r ffordd, os ydw i'n clywed i unrhyw un sy'n barod i fynd i'r eiddo, fod yn gallu mynd i'r eiddo ar gyfer disyplen. [50:25.880 -> 50:27.480] Ac rwy'n credu os oes un cymorth, [50:27.480 -> 50:28.920] os ydw i'n clywed hwn y tu hwn, [50:28.920 -> 50:31.480] ac os oes un cymorth o sut rydych chi'n digwydd [50:31.480 -> 50:33.680] a bywyd eich bywyd o gynhyrchiad fawr fel nhw, [50:33.680 -> 50:36.360] mae'n ymwneud â chael eich bod chi drwy'r pyn, nid oes? [50:36.360 -> 50:37.840] Mae'n siarad llawer amdano, [50:37.840 -> 50:38.960] ac rydw i'n defnyddio'r ffras, [50:38.960 -> 50:40.440] ddim i'w gosod yn y sgwrs. [50:40.440 -> 50:41.280] Ie. [50:41.280 -> 50:43.680] Roedd yn allan o'i chyflawn mewn ymgyrchu bob dydd, [50:43.680 -> 50:48.000] sy'n lle rydych chi'n cael eich cymorth allanol,'n lle rydych chi'n cael eich cyflawni allan. [50:48.000 -> 50:50.000] Dyna lle rydych chi'n cael eich cyflawni allan, nid? [50:50.000 -> 50:54.000] Iawn, roedd y sgwrs Dylan yno'n ymdrechu gyda'r arbennig Muhammad Ali, [50:54.000 -> 50:57.000] a'r cyngherddwyr ddim wedi'u gwneud yn y llawysgrif o'r rhyn, [50:57.000 -> 51:00.000] rydyn nhw'n gwneud ar y drwylo, pan nad oes unrhyw un ar y rhan, [51:00.000 -> 51:01.000] yn ystod y gweithiau anodd. [51:01.000 -> 51:03.000] Roedd yn ysgrifennu'r cyfrifoldeb, [51:03.000 -> 51:05.080] ond rydych chi'n iawn, dyna'r eich gwybodaeth, nid i fod yn y cyflawni allan. Os oes gennych ddiddordeb y fideo, doing the hard hours. He described it as the struggle, but you're right, that's the willingness [51:05.080 -> 51:06.900] not to be in that comfy chair. [51:06.900 -> 51:08.180] If you've enjoyed the episode, [51:08.180 -> 51:10.340] please do subscribe to High Performance [51:10.340 -> 51:13.100] and you can also now listen to us on Google Podcasts [51:13.100 -> 51:14.800] and on your Google Home device. [51:14.800 -> 51:16.340] And if you like what you hear, [51:16.340 -> 51:18.500] we'd also love it if you could leave us a review, [51:18.500 -> 51:19.980] it is really helpful. [51:19.980 -> 51:21.680] Thanks to Finn Ryan at Rethink Audio [51:21.680 -> 51:22.740] for his work on the pod [51:22.740 -> 51:24.500] and do keep an eye out on social media [51:24.500 -> 51:27.720] for details of the next special episode [51:27.720 -> 51:58.440] of High Performance. Save big on the brands you love at the Fred Meyer 5AM Black Friday Sale! [51:58.440 -> 52:02.280] Shop in-store on Black Friday for 50% off socks and underwear! [52:02.280 -> 52:05.200] Board games and card games are buy one, get one free. [52:05.200 -> 52:07.320] Save on great gifts for everyone, [52:07.320 -> 52:09.160] like TVs and appliances. [52:09.160 -> 52:11.520] And the first 100 customers on Black Friday [52:11.520 -> 52:13.640] will get free gift cards, too. [52:13.640 -> 52:16.840] So shop Friday, November 24th, and save big. [52:16.840 -> 52:19.320] Doors open at 5 AM, so get there early. [52:19.320 -> 52:21.440] Fred Meyer, fresh for everyone. [52:17.840 -> 52:19.840] Fresh for everyone!