E74 - Mel Marshall: The art and science of great coaching

Mel Marshall is the current Loughborough National Lead Coach where her swimmers include Olympic winning swimmer Adam Peaty.

Mel has overseen Adam Peaty's rise to the top of the international swimming stage, coaching him to gold medal success at every level - Olympic, World, European, Commonwealth and British.

In 2015 and 2016 Mel was awarded the title of British Swimming Coach of the Year. Before turning her hand to coaching, Mel had a successful career as a swimmer herself which included winning six medals at the 2006 Commonwealth Games in Australia and Bronze at the World Short Course Championships in 2008. 

Mel was awarded an MBE for her services to swimming and charity in the Queen’s Birthday Honours list 2021.

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# Episode Notes

* Mel Marshall is an elite swimming coach who has guided Adam Peaty to Olympic, World, European, Commonwealth, and British gold medals.
* She was named British Swimming Coach of the Year in 2015 and 2016.
* Before coaching, Marshall had a successful swimming career, winning six medals at the 2006 Commonwealth Games in Australia and bronze at the 2008 World Short Course Championships.
* Marshall was awarded an MBE for her services to swimming and charity in the Queen's Birthday Honours list 2021.

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# Podcast Transcript

**Jake Humphrey:** Hey, how you doing? Welcome along to another episode of the High Performance Podcast. So pleased you've chosen us to hang out with for the next hour or so. And today's guest is amazing. Absolutely, totally, and utterly amazing. If you've not heard this podcast before, it's where we have conversations with leading artists, entrepreneurs, sports people, business leaders from across the world about the things they've learned on their journey to high performance and the only reason we ask the questions, the only reason we have the conversation is so that you listening to this right now can learn from them and I tell you right now you will learn so much from today's guest the the elite swimming coach, Mel Marshall.

**Mel Marshall:** Competition is the bread of life, isn't it? And I love being competitive and I've had to learn how to be competitive and also be compassionate as life's gone on.

**Jake Humphrey:** A wise owl told me once as a coach, you've got two ears and one mouth for a reason. Listen twice as much as you talk and then you might start to think you're being a decent coach.

**Mel Marshall:** Sustainable success is founded upon sustainable questioning and this sort of thirst and drive to just try and get better.

**Jake Humphrey:** And you know, there's winning once and there's winning twice and there's winning better each time. And you've always got to, and me and Adam talk about this regularly, but you've always got to start the next one with nothing.

**Mel Marshall:** If you try your 110% best at something, you never fail because you don't let yourself down. You'll win some, you'll lose some, but you'll never ever fail because you've given your very best.

**Jake Humphrey:** Listen, you don't get to coach the fastest swimmer in the world, probably the greatest swimmer this country's ever produced without really knowing your stuff, but this conversation, and I've said it a million times, it's not about sports, it's not about swimming, it's about people. Please, please give this episode as much time as you can, really think about it, really reflect on it. And I'd love you to get in touch with me once it's finished. Just go to at Jake Humphrey on Instagram, ping me a message and let me know what you think of the episode.

**Jake Humphrey:** Before we get going, I just wanted to mention the power of personal relationships. This episode came about because Damien is really good friends with Mel and he spoke to her at length and explained the podcast and she started listening and then she was keen to be a guest. And this week, you might know this already, but I invested last year in an eyewear brand called Coral Eyewear, which I believe in really strongly because it takes plastic out of the ocean and plastic out of landfill and turns it into eyewear. Nine million pairs of glasses are made using virgin plastic every single year, which is just totally unacceptable. And Coral Eyewear are trying to make a real difference. I was happy to join the journey with them. And this week I hooked them up with Castor, who are a sportswear brand. And if you follow me on Instagram, you know that I wear some of their stuff sometimes. And by the way, I'm not being paid to talk about this. I'm just telling you. And the reason it happened was personal relationships. And I think sometimes in the modern world, when we're all operating on Zoom, and we're all pinging WhatsApp messages to each other, and emails, and texts, I think the power of the personal relationship has been lost. And I remember when I first started in television, and I got an agent, I had this great guy called Anthony that looked after me for the first few years. And I used to love saying to anyone, oh yeah, yeah, speak to my agent. Because I thought it sounded cool, I thought it like, it kind of validated me as a proper TV presenter. And it's only when I started working on Formula One and I noticed how David Coulthard operated, that I said to him, you know, why, why A, don't you have an agent, and B, why do you do everything yourself? You're on the phone all the time, you're whipping off to meetings every five minutes, you know, you're hopping in the car in the evening at nine o'clock when we were all going out for dinner to go meet someone. And he just said to me, son, as he refers to me always, even though I'm only a few years younger, son, life is about the power of personal relationships. Don't hide behind anyone. Don't hide behind any tech. And that was a really good lesson for me, actually. And it's a lesson I've taken with me for the last decade or so since I since I worked with David on the on the Formula One coverage and I'm telling you now, once you have a personal relationship with someone, once you make the effort to say listen I know I've only met you over email or no you know we've only conversed briefly on text or whatever, let's just grab a coffee. And then you know how you always say to people, let's grab a coffee, then you never bother grabbing a coffee and it's like a sort of lazy sign off. Yeah, let's meet up sometime over the next few weeks and both of you know it'll never happen. Once you actually make the effort to go meet someone for that coffee, they can't believe you've made the effort because nobody makes the effort anymore. And it moves your relationship with them on leaps and bounds. So I just really wanted to start today by saying that I believe massively in the power of personal relationships, and I think you should too. I think you'd be impressed. Anyway, let's get on with this. It's a great episode. I think you're going to love what Mel has to say, and the brilliant Mel Marshall comes next.

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**Mel Marshall:** Thanks for having me. I'm looking forward to my 70 minute counselling session, boys.

**Jake Humphrey:** Right, here we go. Now you're doing the counselling. What is high performance?

**Mel Marshall:** I've been listening to all your podcasts and I've given myself a chance to sort of answer this. And for me, like high performance is the outcome. And to me, how you get high performance is about the process. And to me, it's finding, it's evolving, it's delivering the best version of yourself, your culture, your environment, your people, every single day at a sustainable, long-term and short-term pace. And that to me is, like I say, what high performance is. High performance is the outcome and the process of how you get there is the interesting part of the journey.

**Jake Humphrey:** Obviously, we've now asked that question to about 50 plus people. I think you're the first person, Mel, who has mentioned evolving in your answer. Because I think one of the mistakes we make as human beings, we find high performance and that's it, we've found the formula. Whereas evolution is obviously something that's on your mind when you talk about high performance. So why is that?

**Mel Marshall:** I think you go to sleep an expert and you wake up a novice. And I just think that if you treat life like that, every day is a journey. And I just think if you look now, the world's your library, you know, I've been out running with you boys for probably 40 runs over the last 18 months. And every time I come back in from those runs, when I hear people like Joe Malone talking about the art of resilience, when I hear Richard, the army commander, talking about the power of moral courage, you feel yourself evolving every single day. And I think that it's about a growth mindset. It's about how do you make the best version of yourself every single day? And that's what my life's about as a person, as a performer, as a professional. And, and I love it. I literally, you know, I love it. I wake up in the morning and don't get me wrong. I still have the days where I just like, Oh, come on, is it over yet? But most of the time, the majority of my response is right. What's out there to explore? How can I get better? And how can I get better? And how can I win life today, I suppose?

**Jake Humphrey:** And what do you do when you're having one of those, ugh, days?

**Mel Marshall:** Well, I put a cold Copperberg in the fridge and I wait till 7.30 at home. That's high performance right there.

**Jake Humphrey:** So Mel, will you take us back to your origin story? Cause I do know a little bit about your background and I'm interested in when you first developed that growth mindset, because you weren't coming from an environment where high performance was necessarily all around you.

**Mel Marshall:** Yeah, I mean it comes from my mum and my dad really, and Jake I've heard you talk about, you know, your history and your adversity and does that, you know, certainly shape you for the future? And I absolutely think it does. You know, my mum, I won't go into too much detail, but she's had, you know, a few challenges around physicality over the years. And she sort of sat me down when I was about nine years of age and she looked at me across the kitchen table and she said to me, look, you've got two arms at work, you've got two legs at work, you've got energy and you've got enthusiasm. Go out and give the world, look, you've got two arms at work, you've got two legs at work. You've got energy and you've got enthusiasm. Go out and give the world the very best you've got and don't come home until you have. And that sort of, that was really born in my childhood. And then I have an over-competitive father who literally would not want to lose anything. And, you know, there was just no mercy. It was like, no, you can go and goal and I, the 35 year old strong man will strike the ball at a hundred mile an hour and you will learn to cope. And I, the professional table tennis player will not teach you how to serve. I will just serve at you. But that in itself was a life lesson. It was a competitive hurdle I had to get over. And it was the foundations of me, my competitive, you know, nature really. And interestingly, you know, I fought and fought and fought. And the day that I did beat him, he stopped racing. So yeah, so yeah, he retired. He was like, basically, no, we're not running racing anymore. We're not swimming racing anymore. But again, I thank both my parents for what they taught me and those real key lessons. And competition is the bread of life, isn't it? And I love being competitive and I've had to learn how to be competitive and also be compassionate as life's gone on. So, yeah, I think that's the foundations of where I've come from. And I had a best friend called Daniel and he had a condition called muscular dystrophy and it was a very, very severe disability. And he lived, he was given the prognosis to live to the age of 12. He lived in my village, and I went to school with him, and, you know, we did things, you know, did things that kids do, and I was surrounded, and it was probably the most inspirational story I've ever been witness to living was his mum and dad called Paula and Stuart. They never saw that he was supposed to make it till 12. They said, right, we accept this challenge and we're going to make the very best of this boy's life. And he passed away at 36 years of age. And, but he met Rihanna. He met every single Tottenham player. He went to every football game. You know, he came to me to, with me to watch my championships and they would hang out all the Star Wars, the Game of Thrones. I mean, you wouldn't believe it. It's almost like he's a member of Hollywood or something. But to me, people like Dan and Paula and Stuart, they're the real-life people in this world that are given a challenging hand but they make the decision to accept the situation and find the most positive resolution. And I would say that, you know, that is, that's kind of, that's me really, that's a little bit of part of my DNA.

**Jake Humphrey:** So when did you discover your talent for swimming then? Because like Jake said in the introduction, you were an incredible athlete in your own right. So tell us a little bit about that journey of discovery.

**Mel Marshall:** I started swimming when I was around seven years of age. Again, there was some kind of history around my parents and whether or not I had a physical condition that would maybe show later on in life. So it was basically like, right, swimming exercises all the muscles, so you're going to swim in. That journey started at four. The first fallout with my dad started at five because the independent female in me at five was convinced that she knew how to swim on her own and proceeded to drown in the small pool in Spalding. And then I just went three or four times a week and then I saw a swimming club and I started, they were in two lanes and I was in the public lane. And then I was like, right, I'll try and beat them. They kind of spotted me and then I went from there really. And then again, that sort of competitive animal in me was just like, right, I want to win the lane. I want to win my age group. I want to win the club. I want to win, be the best in the club. And I want to then be the best in the county and just never really gave up. Just like my boss now says I'm like a Jack Russell with a really good bone. I just never give up.

**Jake Humphrey:** But the obvious question, Mel, is why, why did you feel you had to win?

**Mel Marshall:** Because it's just who I am. It's I've just, that's what I do. I guess it's, I've just always wanted to be good. I've always wanted to be the best version of myself. I've always wanted to win. And again

**Navigating the Journey of High Performance: Insights from Mel Marshall, Olympic Swimming Coach**

Mel Marshall, the current Loughborough National Lead Coach, has guided Olympic gold medalist Adam Peaty to success at every level. Her remarkable achievements as a coach have earned her accolades, including British Swimming Coach of the Year in 2015 and 2016. Before transitioning to coaching, Mel had a distinguished swimming career, winning six medals at the 2006 Commonwealth Games and a bronze at the 2008 World Short Course Championships. Her contributions to swimming and charity were recognized with an MBE in the Queen's Birthday Honours list in 2021.

**Key Insights from Mel Marshall's Coaching Journey:**

1. **Balancing Medals and Personal Growth:**

- Mel believes that coaching success should not be solely measured by medals but also by the personal growth of the athletes.
- She aims to develop well-rounded individuals who are not defined by their achievements but are equipped with skills and values that will serve them beyond their athletic careers.

2. **Embracing Failure as a Learning Opportunity:**

- Mel emphasizes that failure is an inevitable part of the journey to success.
- She encourages athletes to embrace failures and setbacks as opportunities for growth and learning.
- By viewing failures as learning experiences, athletes can develop resilience, perseverance, and a growth mindset.

3. **Building a Strong Coach-Athlete Relationship:**

- Mel stresses the importance of establishing a strong and trusting relationship with athletes.
- She believes that open communication, empathy, and mutual respect are crucial for fostering a positive and supportive coaching environment.
- A strong coach-athlete relationship enables athletes to feel safe, supported, and motivated to reach their full potential.

4. **Leading with Authenticity and Integrity:**

- Mel advocates for authenticity and integrity as essential leadership qualities.
- She believes that leaders should be genuine, transparent, and true to their values.
- By leading with authenticity, leaders can inspire trust, respect, and commitment from their teams.

5. **Creating a Commitment Culture:**

- Mel emphasizes the power of creating a commitment culture within teams.
- She believes that when team members are genuinely invested in the team's goals and values, they are more likely to go above and beyond to achieve success.
- A commitment culture fosters a sense of unity, purpose, and accountability among team members.

6. **The Importance of Love and Passion:**

- Mel highlights the significance of love and passion in driving success.
- She believes that when athletes and coaches are genuinely passionate about their sport, they are more likely to find joy and fulfillment in their pursuits.
- Love and passion can inspire athletes to push their limits, overcome challenges, and achieve remarkable feats.

7. **Finding Inspiration in Human Stories:**

- Mel shares inspiring stories of athletes she has coached, demonstrating the transformative power of sport.
- She believes that these stories showcase the resilience, determination, and unwavering spirit of athletes who have overcome adversity to achieve success.
- Human stories can motivate and inspire others to pursue their dreams and strive for greatness.

8. **Addressing Gender Inequality in Coaching:**

- Mel acknowledges the underrepresentation of women in elite coaching roles.
- She believes that creating more opportunities for women to develop their coaching skills and gain experience is essential for addressing this imbalance.
- Mel encourages women to pursue coaching careers and break down barriers that hinder their progress.

9. **Embracing a Diverse Coaching Toolkit:**

- Mel emphasizes the importance of developing a diverse coaching toolkit that includes both masculine and feminine qualities.
- She believes that effective coaches should be able to adapt their coaching style to meet the needs of individual athletes and situations.
- A diverse coaching toolkit allows coaches to connect with athletes on a deeper level and provide tailored support.

10. **The Power of Reflection and Self-Awareness:**

- Mel stresses the importance of self-reflection and self-awareness for coaches.
- She believes that coaches should continually evaluate their own strengths, weaknesses, and biases to improve their coaching effectiveness.
- By engaging in self-reflection, coaches can identify areas for growth and development, ultimately becoming better leaders and mentors for their athletes.

# High Performance Podcast: Episode Summary

**Guest: Mel Marshall, Loughborough National Lead Coach**

**Topics:**

* The importance of feedback in developing athletes
* How to give effective feedback
* The difference between giving feedback on technical elements and psychological elements
* The importance of developing competitive instincts and the ability to deal with adversity
* The role of fun in a high-performance environment
* The importance of believing in oneself and one's abilities

**Key Insights:**

* Feedback is essential for athletes to improve their performance.
* The best feedback is specific, timely, and actionable.
* It is important to consider the individual athlete's needs and preferences when giving feedback.
* Technical feedback should focus on improving the athlete's performance, while psychological feedback should focus on helping the athlete to develop a positive mindset and overcome mental barriers.
* Competitive instincts and the ability to deal with adversity can be developed through a variety of methods, such as setting challenging goals, exposing athletes to difficult situations, and providing them with opportunities to learn from their mistakes.
* Fun is an important part of a high-performance environment. When athletes are enjoying themselves, they are more likely to be motivated and engaged.
* Believing in oneself and one's abilities is essential for achieving success. Athletes who have a strong belief in themselves are more likely to persevere in the face of challenges and achieve their goals.

**Actionable Tips:**

* Ask athletes how they would like to receive feedback.
* Be specific and timely when giving feedback.
* Focus on the athlete's strengths and areas for improvement.
* Create a positive and supportive environment where athletes feel comfortable making mistakes and learning from them.
* Encourage athletes to set challenging goals and to take risks.
* Make sure that athletes are having fun and enjoying themselves.
* Help athletes to develop a strong belief in themselves and their abilities.

**Memorable Quotes:**

* "You've got two ears and one mouth for a reason, listen twice as much as you talk and then you might start to think you're being a decent coach."
* "The best thing to do can still be to do nothing because your source of feedback is one potential source of growth."
* "Less is more like them. I do think now, unfortunately, you know, we're so want to helicopter them out of all the challenges. It's like, no, we have to let them learn and grow from each challenge and just be there to support them through those challenges, not remove the challenges."
* "I think that you can't do one without the other. I think that in terms of reaching your full potential, your full physical potential is down to your ability to believe in yourself, your ability to perform under pressure without perceiving stress, and your ability to bring the best version of yourself to the most difficult situation and deliver."
* "Life is what you give it."

# High Performance Podcast Episode Summary: Mel Marshall on the Power of Emotional Intelligence in Achieving Success

**Introduction:**

* Mel Marshall is an experienced swimming coach who has played a crucial role in the rise of Olympic gold medalist Adam Peaty.
* She was awarded the British Swimming Coach of the Year title in 2015 and 2016.
* Marshall is also an accomplished swimmer herself, having won six medals at the 2006 Commonwealth Games and a Bronze at the 2008 World Short Course Championships.
* In this episode, Marshall discusses the importance of emotional intelligence in achieving success, both in sports and in life.

**Key Points:**

* **The Importance of Emotional Intelligence:**
* Emotional intelligence is the ability to understand and manage one's own emotions as well as the emotions of others.
* It is a vital skill for anyone who wants to be successful in life, regardless of their field.
* Marshall emphasizes that emotional intelligence is not just about being nice or likable, but rather about being able to use your emotions to your advantage.
* **How Emotional Intelligence Can Help Athletes:**
* Emotional intelligence can help athletes to:
* Stay focused and motivated during training and competition.
* Deal with setbacks and disappointments.
* Build strong relationships with teammates and coaches.
* Perform under pressure.
* Marshall shares examples from her own coaching experience to illustrate how emotional intelligence can make a difference in an athlete's performance.
* **How to Develop Emotional Intelligence:**
* Emotional intelligence can be learned and developed over time.
* Some tips for developing emotional intelligence include:
* Paying attention to your own emotions and those of others.
* Practicing self-awareness and self-regulation.
* Building strong relationships with supportive people.
* Seeking out opportunities to learn and grow.
* **The Power of Empathy:**
* Empathy is a key component of emotional intelligence.
* It is the ability to understand and share the feelings of another person.
* Empathy is essential for building strong relationships and creating a positive team culture.
* Marshall stresses that empathy is not just about feeling sorry for someone, but rather about understanding their perspective and trying to help them.

**Conclusion:**

* Mel Marshall's insights on the importance of emotional intelligence in achieving success are valuable for anyone who wants to excel in their chosen field.
* By developing their emotional intelligence, individuals can improve their performance, build stronger relationships, and live more fulfilling lives.

**Additional Quotes and Insights:**

* "Emotional intelligence is not just about being nice or likable, it's about being able to use your emotions to your advantage." - Mel Marshall
* "When you're emotionally intelligent, you can stay focused and motivated during training and competition, deal with setbacks and disappointments, build strong relationships with teammates and coaches, and perform under pressure." - Mel Marshall
* "Emotional intelligence can be learned and developed over time. It's not something that you're born with, but it's something that you can work on and improve." - Mel Marshall
* "Empathy is a key component of emotional intelligence. It's the ability to understand and share the feelings of another person." - Mel Marshall
* "Empathy is not just about feeling sorry for someone, it's about understanding their perspective and trying to help them." - Mel Marshall