E197 - Edwin Van Der Sar: "It’s f***ing hard" - his final interview as Ajax CEO

In this interview, we welcome Edwin Van De Sar. The man who went from player to CEO, who won four Eredivisie titles, four Premier League Crowns and the Champions League, among many other accolades in his career.

We recorded this in a hotel room overlooking the Johan Cruyff Arena in Amsterdam, the home of Ajax Football Club. Edwin, at the time of recording, was the Chief Executive of the football club. He walked into the room and I said to him, “how are things?” The reply was a one word swear word. Immediately it was clear to us that pressure was taking its toll on this guy. We then spoke at length about the truth of what life's like at the top of a football club.

We talk about the scrutiny, we talk about the criticism, the questions, the pain and the impact on his family. Of course, we also talk about his playing days. What he learned at Manchester United, what it was like in that great Ajax team. Some of the challenges he faced as a Holland International and the great players he's played with.

A couple of days after the conversation, it was announced that Edwin had decided to quit as the CEO Ajax. So this now lives as the final interview that he gave as the CEO.

I think that we will now listen to it with fresh ears, with an even deeper understanding of the challenges that he was under.

Enjoy!

Love, Jake

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# Summary of the Podcast Episode Transcript

**Edwin van der Sar Interview:**

- Edwin van der Sar, former Manchester United and Ajax goalkeeper, sat down for an interview with the High Performance Podcast.
- The interview took place in a hotel room overlooking the Johan Cruyff Arena in Amsterdam, home of Ajax Football Club.
- Edwin had just stepped down as Chief Executive of Ajax, making this interview his final one in that role.

**Key Themes:**

1. **Pressure and Scrutiny:**
- Edwin emphasized the intense pressure and scrutiny that comes with being at the helm of a football club.
- He revealed that upon entering the room for the interview, he uttered a one-word swear, indicating the toll the pressure had taken on him.

2. **Balancing Success and Failure:**
- Edwin discussed the challenge of maintaining success, especially after a period of dominance.
- He acknowledged that failure is a natural part of striving for greatness and that learning from setbacks is crucial.

3. **Maintaining Ajax's DNA:**
- Edwin spoke about the importance of preserving Ajax's DNA, which includes a commitment to developing young talent and playing attractive football.
- He highlighted the club's history of producing world-class players and the importance of maintaining that tradition.

4. **Dealing with Player and Manager Departures:**
- Edwin addressed the challenges of losing key players and managers, emphasizing the need for a long-term plan and the ability to adapt to change.
- He shared his experience of working with managers like Louis van Gaal and Sir Alex Ferguson and the lessons he learned from them.

5. **Uncertainty and Decision-Making:**
- Edwin discussed the inherent uncertainty in football and the difficulty of predicting whether a manager or signing will be successful.
- He stressed the need for careful decision-making, taking into account various factors such as player talent, team chemistry, and managerial style.

6. **Finding Time for Reflection:**
- Edwin emphasized the importance of finding time for reflection and making informed decisions, especially during challenging times.
- He highlighted the need to strike a balance between making quick decisions and taking the time to consider the long-term implications.

7. **Learning from Mistakes:**
- Edwin acknowledged that mistakes are inevitable in football and that learning from them is essential for growth.
- He shared his experience of making mistakes as a player and as a director, and the lessons he learned from those experiences.

8. **Managing Criticism and Doubt:**
- Edwin discussed the challenges of dealing with criticism and doubt, particularly when it comes from outside the organization.
- He emphasized the importance of staying focused on the task at hand and not letting external noise influence decision-making.

9. **The Importance of Performance:**
- Edwin stressed that in football, performance is the ultimate measure of success or failure.
- He emphasized that everyone involved in the game, from players to coaches to executives, is ultimately judged on their ability to deliver results.

10. **The Toll of a Challenging Season:**
- Edwin admitted that the challenging season Ajax had endured had taken a toll on him personally.
- He acknowledged the difficulty of making tough decisions, such as parting ways with a manager, and the emotional impact it can have.

# Summary of the Podcast Episode Transcript

**Edwin Van De Sar's Journey from Player to CEO**

- Edwin Van De Sar, former player and CEO of Ajax Football Club, shares his experiences and insights in a candid interview.


- The interview begins with a reflection on the immense pressure and scrutiny faced by those at the helm of a football club.


- Edwin emphasizes the impact of media criticism, social media commentary, and the constant need to perform and deliver results.


- He highlights the toll it takes on not only the individual but also their family and loved ones.


- Edwin discusses the challenges he faced as CEO of Ajax, including dealing with difficult decisions, managing player transfers, and navigating the complexities of the football industry.


- He reflects on the importance of maintaining a strong connection with the club's staff, players, and supporters.


- Edwin shares his experiences as a player, including his time at Manchester United, Juventus, and Fulham.


- He emphasizes the importance of adapting communication styles to different audiences and recalls how Louis van Gaal used psychometric testing to understand players' preferences.


- Edwin discusses the challenges of managing cliques and divisions within a football team, drawing on his experiences with the Dutch squad in 1996.


- He stresses the importance of the coach's role in fostering unity and ensuring that individual performances contribute to the overall success of the team.


- Edwin reflects on his decision to join Manchester United late in his career and the significant impact it had on his life and career.


- He credits Alex Ferguson for creating a winning culture and demanding the highest standards from his players.


- Edwin highlights the quality of players, the manager's leadership, and the club's history as key factors in Manchester United's success during his time there.


- He shares his memories of playing alongside Cristiano Ronaldo and his relentless pursuit of becoming the best player in the world.


- Edwin emphasizes the importance of hard work and internal motivation for young players, drawing comparisons between natural talent and the need for dedication and improvement.


- He reflects on his own upbringing and the importance of treating people with respect and maintaining a normal life outside of football.


- Edwin discusses the demanding nature of his role as CEO, the constant pressure, and the need to balance work and personal life.


- He acknowledges the desire to prove people wrong and show that former players can succeed in different fields.


- Edwin concludes the interview by emphasizing the importance of finding a balance and eventually stepping away from the demanding world of football to prioritize family and personal well-being.

In this interview, Edwin Van Der Sar, the renowned football player turned CEO, shares his experiences and insights on leadership, resilience, and the challenges of working in the high-stakes world of football.

Van Der Sar, who enjoyed a successful playing career with Ajax, Manchester United, and the Dutch national team, transitioned to a leadership role as CEO of Ajax Football Club. However, his tenure was marked by intense scrutiny, criticism, and pressure, which took a toll on his well-being and ultimately led to his resignation.

The interview delves into the unique challenges faced by individuals in leadership positions within football clubs. Van Der Sar candidly discusses the constant scrutiny, the relentless barrage of questions and criticism, and the impact it has on personal and family life. He emphasizes the importance of maintaining a sense of perspective and not taking things personally.

Despite the difficulties, Van Der Sar also reflects on the positive aspects of his time at Ajax. He speaks about the satisfaction of working with a talented team and the joy of seeing the club achieve success. He highlights the importance of legacy and the desire to leave a lasting impact on the club and its supporters.

The interview also touches on Van Der Sar's playing career, with anecdotes from his time at Manchester United and the Dutch national team. He shares his admiration for Sir Alex Ferguson's leadership style and the influence of great players like Cristiano Ronaldo.

Overall, the interview provides a rare glimpse into the life of a football club CEO, shedding light on the immense pressure and scrutiny that comes with the job. Van Der Sar's honesty and willingness to share his experiences offer valuable lessons for anyone interested in leadership and resilience in high-performance environments.